Considering 02 Boxster S, what to look for?
12-06-2012, 01:00 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
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On the matter of IMS bearing problems and warranty coverage for older cars.....
My friend bought an '04 Boxster this year with only 15K miles (a creampuff, to be sure), with a CPO warranty. Peace of mind? You bet! It covered the water pump replacement when the original gave up the ghost.
If you're willing to buy an old car and self-fund major repairs, that's one way to go. But if you're more comfortable with a car having warranty coverage, then maybe this car isn't for you?
In any event, I'd choose a Boxster over a Honda S2000, and I think most of us who have Boxsters would feel the same way.
My friend bought an '04 Boxster this year with only 15K miles (a creampuff, to be sure), with a CPO warranty. Peace of mind? You bet! It covered the water pump replacement when the original gave up the ghost.
If you're willing to buy an old car and self-fund major repairs, that's one way to go. But if you're more comfortable with a car having warranty coverage, then maybe this car isn't for you?
In any event, I'd choose a Boxster over a Honda S2000, and I think most of us who have Boxsters would feel the same way.
12-06-2012, 03:35 PM
#17
about $1,500-1,800. But if you're upgrading a pres-2003 car the aftermarket top doesn't allow for as much access to the engine as the plastic window top.
But a 2003-3004 top (with frame) can be fitted onto a pre-2003 car fairly easily.
The trick is finding a used top worth transplanting.
But a 2003-3004 top (with frame) can be fitted onto a pre-2003 car fairly easily.
The trick is finding a used top worth transplanting.
12-06-2012, 04:05 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
+ 1 on the LN IMS bearing upgrade. I had it done to my '02 Carrera and never regretted it.
As the IMS bearing is a known issue to afflict these engines, it's well worth the couple grand to have it done (or buy the part and do it yourself if you're a good wrench).
It will allow you to stay focused on the track and enjoying the car instead of worrying about whether it's going to let go at any second under load.
Just my two cents.
As the IMS bearing is a known issue to afflict these engines, it's well worth the couple grand to have it done (or buy the part and do it yourself if you're a good wrench).
It will allow you to stay focused on the track and enjoying the car instead of worrying about whether it's going to let go at any second under load.
Just my two cents.
12-06-2012, 08:26 PM
#19
When I spoke to my mechanic, well after doing the IMS, he cautioned doing the IMS as a DIY.
It's straighforward but in his opinion you have to be very careful. Given the labor charge vs. the bigger picture (cost of replacing engine) that's not one I would put in the same category as rotors and pulling a dead starter. Should something go wrong at least the mechanic, a good one, will stand by their work.
It's straighforward but in his opinion you have to be very careful. Given the labor charge vs. the bigger picture (cost of replacing engine) that's not one I would put in the same category as rotors and pulling a dead starter. Should something go wrong at least the mechanic, a good one, will stand by their work.
12-06-2012, 10:01 PM
#20
Race Director
+ 1 on the LN IMS bearing upgrade. I had it done to my '02 Carrera and never regretted it.
As the IMS bearing is a known issue to afflict these engines, it's well worth the couple grand to have it done (or buy the part and do it yourself if you're a good wrench).
It will allow you to stay focused on the track and enjoying the car instead of worrying about whether it's going to let go at any second under load.
Just my two cents.
As the IMS bearing is a known issue to afflict these engines, it's well worth the couple grand to have it done (or buy the part and do it yourself if you're a good wrench).
It will allow you to stay focused on the track and enjoying the car instead of worrying about whether it's going to let go at any second under load.
Just my two cents.
Well, unless of course he doesn't know about the other areas of weakness. Must not get out much.
12-06-2012, 10:55 PM
#21
Wax On, Wax Off
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Also what would be a good price on this car?
02 Boxster S Speed Yellow, 6MT with 38K miles.
Premium package (trying to figure out what this consists of)
Bi-Xenons
Crest in headrest
Speed yellow painted roll bar
PSM with ABD
Automatic climate control
Wider rear wheels
02 Boxster S Speed Yellow, 6MT with 38K miles.
Premium package (trying to figure out what this consists of)
Bi-Xenons
Crest in headrest
Speed yellow painted roll bar
PSM with ABD
Automatic climate control
Wider rear wheels
12-06-2012, 11:15 PM
#22
Drifting
Thread Starter
Let's just say this car has less miles (38K) and is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than 20K. I may buy it and drive it for a while and flip it. If this car is worth around 20K I'm definitely going to snag it.
12-07-2012, 12:05 PM
#24
p.s.
Those HID headlights aka "Litronics" cost about $1,300 when I upgraded in a group buy back in 2005. They probably run about $2,100 now.
As far as flipping for a profit, I don't know how low your cost is but with the new third generation Boxster hitting the streets very soon and the considerably higher price gap between the Carrera line up, many who might have gone with a Carrera in the past will be taking a look at the 981 Boxster S to keep the party budget reasonable. Which means a much more popular model will probably push down the prices of the older Boxsters. I think for older Carreras 05-12, the opposite will be true, the high cost of the new Carrera will push more people who arent' interested in Caymans or Boxsters to buy used 997's instead of going with a new outrageously over-priced 991. From what I've read there's very little performance diffference between the new Boxster S and the new standard Carrera S. The new Boxster is a hugely better deal for the money.
Last edited by perfectlap; 12-07-2012 at 12:41 PM.
12-07-2012, 01:45 PM
#25
Drifting
Thread Starter
I don't check the prices too often, but I don't think you see too many 2000- 2002's for high teens. I'd say your car is more of a find because its well optioned, has the S engine, and sounds like its a garage queen due to the approx ~4K miles a year. Whenever I do check online the mileage for a 10 year old Boxster is usually in the 80K's which means the shocks are probably toasty, the bodywork needs addressing, the interior looks worn and clutch replacement time is coming around the corner. Enthusiast owned Boxsters that have been well detailed and maintained are rare.
p.s.
Those HID headlights aka "Litronics" cost about $1,300 when I upgraded in a group buy back in 2005. They probably run about $2,100 now.
As far as flipping for a profit, I don't know how low your cost is but with the new third generation Boxster hitting the streets very soon and the considerably higher price gap between the Carrera line up, many who might have gone with a Carrera in the past will be taking a look at the 981 Boxster S to keep the party budget reasonable. Which means a much more popular model will probably push down the prices of the older Boxsters. I think for older Carreras 05-12, the opposite will be true, the high cost of the new Carrera will push more people who arent' interested in Caymans or Boxsters to buy used 997's instead of going with a new outrageously over-priced 991. From what I've read there's very little performance diffference between the new Boxster S and the new standard Carrera S. The new Boxster is a hugely better deal for the money.
p.s.
Those HID headlights aka "Litronics" cost about $1,300 when I upgraded in a group buy back in 2005. They probably run about $2,100 now.
As far as flipping for a profit, I don't know how low your cost is but with the new third generation Boxster hitting the streets very soon and the considerably higher price gap between the Carrera line up, many who might have gone with a Carrera in the past will be taking a look at the 981 Boxster S to keep the party budget reasonable. Which means a much more popular model will probably push down the prices of the older Boxsters. I think for older Carreras 05-12, the opposite will be true, the high cost of the new Carrera will push more people who arent' interested in Caymans or Boxsters to buy used 997's instead of going with a new outrageously over-priced 991. From what I've read there's very little performance diffference between the new Boxster S and the new standard Carrera S. The new Boxster is a hugely better deal for the money.
Unless KBB and NADA are way wrong I show this car is worth about 18-19K on the open private market and about 15-16 trade in. Both databases reflect a huge premium for the low miles.
12-07-2012, 02:08 PM
#26
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If I wanted a car basically used for lapping, I'd go straight to a Miata or S2000 and avoid the Porsche. Entry cost for comparable cars are just going to be significantly less and the prep is also going to be cheaper (including replacement of consumables). I can't see getting into a potentially spendy car just to do open track stuff. If you want go faster, a C5 Z06 is lots more fun on track and relatively cheap to purchase and set up...they also are very fun daily drivers. 
On prices, as 987 prices continue to come down rather quickly, 986 prices are still under pressure. I bought my '03 986 S, single owner/all records, excellent body/interior, light options, with 48k miles for $19k...in CA...and probably should have paid at least $500 less. The PO had the IMS/water pump/clutch etc done at 45k miles, as a precaution under an extended warranty, as well.
On prices, as 987 prices continue to come down rather quickly, 986 prices are still under pressure. I bought my '03 986 S, single owner/all records, excellent body/interior, light options, with 48k miles for $19k...in CA...and probably should have paid at least $500 less. The PO had the IMS/water pump/clutch etc done at 45k miles, as a precaution under an extended warranty, as well.
Last edited by mwood; 12-07-2012 at 02:33 PM.
12-07-2012, 05:05 PM
#27
I agree in general new generations drive down prices of previous generations but I don't think the new Boxster will really do anything to the value of the 986 generation. Completely different price ranges and markets. I think the 986's have already hit rock bottom and will hold pretty steady and cars in very nice shape with low miles will continue to demand a premium for someone that wants a Boxster S but only has less than 20K to spend.
Last edited by perfectlap; 12-07-2012 at 05:24 PM.
12-08-2012, 04:02 PM
#28
Yes, i would argue that is the one necessry upgrade...
My two cents:
IMS is a non-issue. Might weep a little oil. So what?
AoS is mostly a non-issue. $100 part and 4 hours of your time / 2 hours of a real mechanic's time to replace. No damage occurs if done early
IMS is a big deal. More and more are failing, so do that when you have the clutch apart (whenever it wears out)
there is no reliable, simple way to test the IMS except to remove it (at which time you are crazy not to replace it good or bad)
Can you run it as it is on street tires? Sure. Good street tires, put in thick oil appropos for hgih temp use, change the brake fluid to race fluid, maybe the pads, and have a few go's. You can slowly get wolder, but they work out of the box, generally better than new drivers work out of the box.
Grant
IMS is a non-issue. Might weep a little oil. So what?
AoS is mostly a non-issue. $100 part and 4 hours of your time / 2 hours of a real mechanic's time to replace. No damage occurs if done early
IMS is a big deal. More and more are failing, so do that when you have the clutch apart (whenever it wears out)
there is no reliable, simple way to test the IMS except to remove it (at which time you are crazy not to replace it good or bad)
Can you run it as it is on street tires? Sure. Good street tires, put in thick oil appropos for hgih temp use, change the brake fluid to race fluid, maybe the pads, and have a few go's. You can slowly get wolder, but they work out of the box, generally better than new drivers work out of the box.
Grant
The 02 Boxster S is just a used car so a thorough used car check out is paramount. If you focus on the issues that get a majority of the (bad) press you could overlook something while less common equally bad.
Whenever possible you should be able to check out a car to the point that if you believe you can buy the car for an agreeable price, and if the PPI finds no reason to fail the car, you end up buying the car.
The more thorough your check out of the car the less likely you'll advance to having a PPI done for naught. Or worse, getting a bum car in case the PPI is as sloppy as you were in your check out of the car.
The only thing a PPI can do is note there are no signs of any issues at the time of the PPI.
This does mean that the car will not ever develop issues. The car is old, used, and will be used going forward and it will over time develop issues. Ones that you will have to be attentive to and address promptly.
During your check out of the car, your research of the car, I might add part of your job is to develop a sense of how the car was treated/serviced with the idea of being to have some confidence it was treated/serviced in such a way it is *unlikely* to develop issues arising from its treatment (poor or worse), and service (skimpy to none) by its current and previous owners.
I'm not a fan of the LN bearing upgrade.
This not a comment on the upgrade one way or the other it is just my nature to leave a car's engine unmolested unless absolutely necessary...
'course some would argue an LN bearing upgrade is necessary...
You'll have to make up your own mind.
If you are going to track the car you should be proactive in addressing possible oiling issues by using tried and tested engine oiling improvement mods. A deeper oil sump (watch that ground clearance!) with proper baffling and an extended oil pick up tube is one. Accu Sump is another. I would probably use them both. There might be other add ons as well that are worth well, adding on.
You do this before you venture onto the track. You do not want to wait for signs of oiling issues but take reasonable precautions from the outset to avoid ever subjecting the engine to oiling issues.
Whenever possible you should be able to check out a car to the point that if you believe you can buy the car for an agreeable price, and if the PPI finds no reason to fail the car, you end up buying the car.
The more thorough your check out of the car the less likely you'll advance to having a PPI done for naught. Or worse, getting a bum car in case the PPI is as sloppy as you were in your check out of the car.
The only thing a PPI can do is note there are no signs of any issues at the time of the PPI.
This does mean that the car will not ever develop issues. The car is old, used, and will be used going forward and it will over time develop issues. Ones that you will have to be attentive to and address promptly.
During your check out of the car, your research of the car, I might add part of your job is to develop a sense of how the car was treated/serviced with the idea of being to have some confidence it was treated/serviced in such a way it is *unlikely* to develop issues arising from its treatment (poor or worse), and service (skimpy to none) by its current and previous owners.
I'm not a fan of the LN bearing upgrade.
This not a comment on the upgrade one way or the other it is just my nature to leave a car's engine unmolested unless absolutely necessary...
'course some would argue an LN bearing upgrade is necessary...
You'll have to make up your own mind.
If you are going to track the car you should be proactive in addressing possible oiling issues by using tried and tested engine oiling improvement mods. A deeper oil sump (watch that ground clearance!) with proper baffling and an extended oil pick up tube is one. Accu Sump is another. I would probably use them both. There might be other add ons as well that are worth well, adding on.
You do this before you venture onto the track. You do not want to wait for signs of oiling issues but take reasonable precautions from the outset to avoid ever subjecting the engine to oiling issues.
12-08-2012, 08:56 PM
#29
Track Day
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Gosh those prices you are talking about seem awfully high. I just bought an '03 Boxster S with 88,000 well cared for miles for less than $15,000! It has:
* Litronic headlights and Bose Premium sound
* 18" upgraded wheels
* new battery
* new brakes (rotors, pads, hardware)
* complete clutch (disc, flywheel, hardware)
* M030 Sport Suspension (European option - perfect for this car - soft around town, great for hard driving)
* leather/padded steering wheel
* shift **** (GT3 model in leather + silver)
* E-brake handle
* custom leather door armrests/handles, knee bolsters, console armrest/lid, sun visors (contrasting silver stitched using OEM Porsche leather)
* new windshield
* tires are brand new Michelin Super Sports (successor to the popular PS2) with less than 400 miles on them.
* new OEM thermostat
* new OEM spark plugs
* OEM fluids (brake/clutch, power steering, oil/filter, cabin filter, coolant)
* Oil+filter changed every 3 months regardless of mileage
* AC system recharged
* new floor mats
88,000 miles seemed like a lot when I was considering buying it, but it really looks and runs like new! Did I get a steal on it?
* Litronic headlights and Bose Premium sound
* 18" upgraded wheels
* new battery
* new brakes (rotors, pads, hardware)
* complete clutch (disc, flywheel, hardware)
* M030 Sport Suspension (European option - perfect for this car - soft around town, great for hard driving)
* leather/padded steering wheel
* shift **** (GT3 model in leather + silver)
* E-brake handle
* custom leather door armrests/handles, knee bolsters, console armrest/lid, sun visors (contrasting silver stitched using OEM Porsche leather)
* new windshield
* tires are brand new Michelin Super Sports (successor to the popular PS2) with less than 400 miles on them.
* new OEM thermostat
* new OEM spark plugs
* OEM fluids (brake/clutch, power steering, oil/filter, cabin filter, coolant)
* Oil+filter changed every 3 months regardless of mileage
* AC system recharged
* new floor mats
88,000 miles seemed like a lot when I was considering buying it, but it really looks and runs like new! Did I get a steal on it?
