New device predicts IMS failures in M96 engine Porsches.
09-29-2011, 03:40 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
New device predicts IMS failures in M96 engine Porsches.
Very interesting new product from Flat 6 Innovations. Jake Raby and James Hatcher have created a device that measures metallic particulate levels in engine oil. Once the IMS starts to give way, the system detects that and sets off an alarm. They call it the IMS Guardian.
This system apparently uses decades old aviation Magnetic Chip Detection technology. A modified oil drain plug uses two opposite polarity magnets to collect ferrous material during engine operation. Once too much metal is detected, meaning when your IMS is starting to disintegrate, an alarm is set. The plug must be cleaned during every oil change and oil change intervals must be diligently followed and recorded to avoid false negatives.
That's a synopsis of an article I read today in the latest Excellence magazine. Definitely pick up a copy if you're interested. Here's the link to Flat 6 which doesn't really say much about the product but you can see it at least.
http://www.flat6innovations.com/
This system apparently uses decades old aviation Magnetic Chip Detection technology. A modified oil drain plug uses two opposite polarity magnets to collect ferrous material during engine operation. Once too much metal is detected, meaning when your IMS is starting to disintegrate, an alarm is set. The plug must be cleaned during every oil change and oil change intervals must be diligently followed and recorded to avoid false negatives.
That's a synopsis of an article I read today in the latest Excellence magazine. Definitely pick up a copy if you're interested. Here's the link to Flat 6 which doesn't really say much about the product but you can see it at least.
http://www.flat6innovations.com/
09-29-2011, 09:48 PM
#3
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09-29-2011, 09:55 PM
#4
Former Vendor
There are several threads running in this forum about this technology.. In fact it was shared here first back in June in the 996 forum
The IMS Guardian installs in less than 2 hours as a DIY. With no special tools. If you can change your oil you can install the IMSG. That's much different than the IMS Retrofit.
I have perfected the integration of the system into the car so seamlessly that no splicing of wires is necessary and the entire wire harness is made ready to install. The system is also beneficial for at least 10 other modes of failure that the IMS Retrofit does not address.
The best part is the system still works with an IMS Retrofit and I have tested the system on vehicles equipped with a bearing retrofit installed.
The great thing is people have a choice now; actually several choices and I remember when the IMS Retrofit was also considered "Snake Oil" back in 2008 when we first developed the technology with LN Engineering. Having choices means the following:
- You can do nothing and just hope that you are not one of the unlucky ones
- You can install the IMSG in 2 hours with the most difficult part of the install being the oil change and you'll spend 389.95 to do this. It also monitors every ferro magnetic component within the engine; not just the IMS Bearing.
- You can carry out the IMS Retrofit and the bearing will cost you 5-600.00 IF you do the job DIY. If its not done DIY the cost is generally 2K and we charge 3,500.00 for our level of service. Even if you retrofit you can still benefit from the IMSG by monitoring every ferromagnetic component within the engine.
- If you have bad luck the cost is generally 15-18K these days, unless you buy a junkyard or mass produced patched up engines for 6-8K.
Having choices is a great thing; prior to 2008 you had no choice. Thanks to LN And Flat 6 you do :-)
So the choice is yours.. Do the homework and cosider which avenue offers the best return on investment.
The IMS Guardian installs in less than 2 hours as a DIY. With no special tools. If you can change your oil you can install the IMSG. That's much different than the IMS Retrofit.
I have perfected the integration of the system into the car so seamlessly that no splicing of wires is necessary and the entire wire harness is made ready to install. The system is also beneficial for at least 10 other modes of failure that the IMS Retrofit does not address.
The best part is the system still works with an IMS Retrofit and I have tested the system on vehicles equipped with a bearing retrofit installed.
The great thing is people have a choice now; actually several choices and I remember when the IMS Retrofit was also considered "Snake Oil" back in 2008 when we first developed the technology with LN Engineering. Having choices means the following:
- You can do nothing and just hope that you are not one of the unlucky ones
- You can install the IMSG in 2 hours with the most difficult part of the install being the oil change and you'll spend 389.95 to do this. It also monitors every ferro magnetic component within the engine; not just the IMS Bearing.
- You can carry out the IMS Retrofit and the bearing will cost you 5-600.00 IF you do the job DIY. If its not done DIY the cost is generally 2K and we charge 3,500.00 for our level of service. Even if you retrofit you can still benefit from the IMSG by monitoring every ferromagnetic component within the engine.
- If you have bad luck the cost is generally 15-18K these days, unless you buy a junkyard or mass produced patched up engines for 6-8K.
Having choices is a great thing; prior to 2008 you had no choice. Thanks to LN And Flat 6 you do :-)
So the choice is yours.. Do the homework and cosider which avenue offers the best return on investment.
Last edited by Flat6 Innovations; 09-29-2011 at 10:39 PM.
09-30-2011, 01:02 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Choice is good. Those who give us choice are to be applauded.
The key detection advantage I see over oil filter inspection is the interval of looking at your filter may well be long enough that you go from good bearing to complete failure without ever looking at the evidence that was always there. The detector is always looking for you...way shorter interval!
Tell us a little more about what should happen once you get an alarm. You say the alarm could help with 10 other modes of failure. I thought the Porsche bearing material to be unique within the engine and thus the detector would always point to the IMS but that appears not to be true? If all you know is that something is shedding particles, that means you need a very experienced mechanic who knows what the specific particles mean...doesn't it?
Is the only solution once the alarm sounds/flashes to get the engine to an M96-experienced engine rebuilder for further diagnosis of which mode of failure and thus what parts need replacement/upgrade/etc?
And are these available to those who call now? Have you solved the supply chain problem with the switches?
The key detection advantage I see over oil filter inspection is the interval of looking at your filter may well be long enough that you go from good bearing to complete failure without ever looking at the evidence that was always there. The detector is always looking for you...way shorter interval!
Tell us a little more about what should happen once you get an alarm. You say the alarm could help with 10 other modes of failure. I thought the Porsche bearing material to be unique within the engine and thus the detector would always point to the IMS but that appears not to be true? If all you know is that something is shedding particles, that means you need a very experienced mechanic who knows what the specific particles mean...doesn't it?
Is the only solution once the alarm sounds/flashes to get the engine to an M96-experienced engine rebuilder for further diagnosis of which mode of failure and thus what parts need replacement/upgrade/etc?
And are these available to those who call now? Have you solved the supply chain problem with the switches?
10-02-2011, 09:25 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Having followed the 1000 post IMS detection thread in the 996 forum since it started here's what I can gather.
You pull the car over to a safe spot, shut the engine off, and call Jake for help (assuming you've bought the support). If you didn't buy the support you are on your own. Have the car towed to a shop or start tearing the engine apart yourself.
It collects/detects any ferrous material. So rods, cranks, chains, cams, bearings, lifters, IMS bearings, even the race of the ceramic LNE retrofit bearing, etc. That being said, I believe it was specifically designed/tested for IMSBF, and am still trying to "dig into" how well or "quickly" (effectively) it can detect those other modes of failure.
Yes, but in most cases (assuming IMSBF) that is likely going to be less expensive (but still not cheap unless DIY) than total engine replacement. Although if it is not the IMSB and is another one of those problems, you are still looking at a hefty bill (in a total rebuild case just as much as a replacement).
From what I've read yes, the two magnets on the drain plug collect enough ferrous material then the alarm goes off. Then you need to start tearing into the engine to determine what is wrong. Some things may be able to diagnosed without engine teardown.
Still though, IMHO this is light years ahead of no warning at all when the IMSB or other internals simply POP without any warning.
Still though, IMHO this is light years ahead of no warning at all when the IMSB or other internals simply POP without any warning.
Last edited by logray; 10-02-2011 at 10:37 PM.
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10-02-2011, 11:13 PM
#8
Choice is good. Those who give us choice are to be applauded.
The key detection advantage I see over oil filter inspection is the interval of looking at your filter may well be long enough that you go from good bearing to complete failure without ever looking at the evidence that was always there. The detector is always looking for you...way shorter interval!
Tell us a little more about what should happen once you get an alarm. You say the alarm could help with 10 other modes of failure. I thought the Porsche bearing material to be unique within the engine and thus the detector would always point to the IMS but that appears not to be true? If all you know is that something is shedding particles, that means you need a very experienced mechanic who knows what the specific particles mean...doesn't it?
Is the only solution once the alarm sounds/flashes to get the engine to an M96-experienced engine rebuilder for further diagnosis of which mode of failure and thus what parts need replacement/upgrade/etc?
And are these available to those who call now? Have you solved the supply chain problem with the switches?
The key detection advantage I see over oil filter inspection is the interval of looking at your filter may well be long enough that you go from good bearing to complete failure without ever looking at the evidence that was always there. The detector is always looking for you...way shorter interval!
Tell us a little more about what should happen once you get an alarm. You say the alarm could help with 10 other modes of failure. I thought the Porsche bearing material to be unique within the engine and thus the detector would always point to the IMS but that appears not to be true? If all you know is that something is shedding particles, that means you need a very experienced mechanic who knows what the specific particles mean...doesn't it?
Is the only solution once the alarm sounds/flashes to get the engine to an M96-experienced engine rebuilder for further diagnosis of which mode of failure and thus what parts need replacement/upgrade/etc?
And are these available to those who call now? Have you solved the supply chain problem with the switches?
