I went to go look at this car, a 2001 S model with supposedly only 50K on it. That said, the paint and interior looked more like one HUNDRED and fifty K. On top of this there is a RPM dependent ticking coming from the engine. I know cars well, but I have never seen an IMS failure so I need expert opinion as to whether or not this one has this issue.

I can haggle the price for the condition of the car, but I wont touch it if it has IMS problems.

What do you think?

 

Sounds like a stuck valve.

 

I think it's a clogged/frozen lifter which is pretty common on these engines. IMS issues are described as a rattle & don't last long before there's no doubt what it WAS! I would purchase this car for the right price after a quality PPI including camshaft timing deviation scan.

 

I told the owner I want PPI, and an oil change where the oil must be sieved and inspected.

I am going to add camshaft timing deviation to that list.

What's the remedy for a stuck lifter?

 

After searching info on stuck lifters, it does seem that the noise is from a stuck lifter. For remedies, some people claim that getting seafoam/ATF/kerosene in there will help dissolve build up and possibly fix the noise. However I have seen others who dismantled the engines and found boxster lifters worn down to a nub so no matter how much seafoam you use, itll never be corrected. Ill see what PPI reveals.

 

It will need new lifters!

 

A PPI with the car's engine making those noises seems like a waste of PPI money to me.

While that Seafoam/ATF/Kerosene 'trick' might work -- assuming the lifter is stuck due to God only knows what kind of treatment, abuse or lack of servicing and neglect -- it is shade tree mechanic to the extreme. These fluids thin down the engine's oil considerably and I can't see the benefit of doing this to free up a maybe stuck lifter at the risk of accelerated bearing wear, flat lobing a camshaft, or even scuffing/scoring one or more pistons and their cylinders.

If an engine has been treated in such a way so as to have one or more lifters stuck who knows what else will turn up bad soon after the lifter is unstuck?

In short the cure might be as bad as the disease.

You really need to budget for at least one camshaft cover removal -- the one under which the presumed stuck lifter resides -- then budget for camshaft removal and at least a full set of lifters. If say one exhaust lifter is bad you should consider replacing all of the exhaust lifters.

But you really need to be sure of the diagnosis first. The lifter may be stuck or collapsed or it may be a flat lobe on a cam or even something else.

Unless you can get the car at a price that mitigates your risk (hard to quantify the amount of risk, too) I'd give the car a miss.

Sincerely,

Macster.

 

If he is trying to sell it with this kind of problem, what else is wrong with it? This to me is one neglected puppy. Macster is right, a PPI is a waste of money and there are lots of other good vehicles out there.However a PPI is appropriate if the car is in good/great condition.

If he has not the money to spend on it to fix it , then I believe that regular servicing may have been skimped on. Demand all receipts for work done. You can tell a lot about the car by assessing the owner. A PPI is a must. Bargain hard. Good luck. Pass on this one though.
Guy

 

Great advice.... there are a lot of Boxsters for sale out there. Don't get sucked into a money pit.

 

This is more a issue of poor design than obvious neglect. The lifters have 1 hole for oil to enter so if the oil is dirty any debris tends to stay in the lifter & clog the tiny passages ( tightest clearances in any engine) seafoam etc. will clean the engine very well & deposit much of the debris in the lifters where it will stay & make the problem worse. If you do buy this car I would have the PPI done & only pull the oil filter & cut it open to check for debris not change the oil. After you own it change the oil to Castrol Edge 5w-40 & drive it @ 3k -4k rpm to try & free up the lifters & change oil again when the noise lessens. If this doesn't work you can remove each lifter, submerge it in new clean oil & pump it to try & purge the dirty oil & debris & replace any that don't come clean. All this info is my attempt to learn & regurgetate what Jake Raby has said so feel free to search & read what he has said on this & other forums.

 

Well, I happen to have a lifter for my 02 Boxster handy. The oil hole is 0.070" in diameter. That would have to be some dirty oil loaded with some pretty large pieces of debris. Remember the oil that is routed to these holes is on the *clean* side of the oil system so it is hard to imagine with a properly installed and functioning oil filter how this debris to get to the oil hole.

Next the lifter body has what I suspect a cavity (I have not cut the body apart) that acts as some kind of dirt/debris trap. The oil flows into the hole which opens into the cavity which acts as an oil reservior. Once in this reservior the oil's rate of flow decreases so this works to let the oil shed any debris or dirt, in other words this reservior acts as a second filter to the oil before the oil can then flow ultimately into the zero lash adjuster.

From this cavity/reservior the oil flows up (towards the top -- flat surface that contacts the camshaft lobe) and through some small gap between the inner wall of this cavity and the underside of the flat surface of the lifter body. This works to limit the amount of any debris or trash that has collected in the reservior to be picked up by the oil and carried out of there and into the the zero lash adjuster.

Then the oil must flow through a machined depression in the underside of the flat surface of the lifter body. This depression is arranged so the flat end of one of the two cylinders/tubes of the zero-lash mechanism only partially covers this depression so oil can flow through this depression and into the zero-lash mechanism smaller cylinder/tube.

This cylinder has at its 'closed' end a check ball valve designed to allow oil to flow through the smaller cylinder and this check ball valve into the larger cylinder/tube.

These two cylinders/tubes form a hydraulic piston/cylinder assembly and the only way the oil can leave this is to flow back through the check ball or flow between the gap of the inner and outer cylinders/tubes. The sliding fit of these parts is so good that even with the unit on my desk and free of any oil the fit is good enough that the air in the void makes an air spring that prevents me from squeezing and collapsing the two cylinders. With oil forget it. Only a failing to seal check valve could have oil leaving this void.

To my layman's eye the design appears to be a good design and if fed the proper type of oil and oil that is not run too long results in zero lash lifters that deliver incredible longevity.

To the OP, that noise makes the condition of the engine a big unknown. The only thing that is known is there is something obviously wrong with the engine. But what and what it means and what it would cost to put right can only be determined by some expensive engine teardown.

An oil system flush scares me. If this does 'cure' the noise then I'm still very concerned about what the engine's overall condition is. If the oil system flush doesn't 'cure' the noise then you having bought the car now need to spend who knows how much money fixing the engine. Worst case is the engine is not fixable but must be replaced. That can run from several thousand dollars (if you can find a good used engine) to over $10K or more if you buy one from the factory and have it installed by a dealer.

Thus I would not bother with a PPI on this car and instead just walk away from the car.

There are other cars out there that are in at least as good a shape as this car (and some in even better shape) with the added bonus they do not exbibit any signs of internal engine trouble which is almost certainly going to cost someone some money (maybe a lot of money) to put right.

Sincerely,

Macster.

 

Macster and others, I bow to your deep knowledge on these issues.

After reading everyone;s thoughts on the car I videoed in my first post, I have all but forgotten about it in favor of better conditioned cars. Unless I could get that car for a ridiculously low price, I'm staying away.

So onto the next contender: A beautiful Boxster S, 2000, with some nice options and 50K on the clock. However this car actually looks like it has 50K, so right away I feel better about it. I have service records (from Porsche dealer, not Indy shop), clean carfax, stored indoors, etc.

Downside: yet another suspicious engine noise, argh! This time it is more of an inconsistent rattle.. a hunting clunk. It could simply be that there is something loose, but I thought I'd ask the experts on these forums before pulling the trigger. The only other issue with the car is that there is some noise upon engagement of the clutch, again a sort of rattle. Maybe even the same rattle. But maybe not. See vid below and please share your thoughts.

 

often the dual mass flywheels don't last long. Mine had to changed out at 33k and if the noise gets worse with the cltuch then I suspect that's what it is. so figure minimum Dual mass flywheel @ $800 and clutch @ around $500 plus labor

 

Well, I don't want to you think I'm infallible. There's too much at risk to go by my opinion alone.

harryrcb and his suspicion about the dual mass flywheel (DMF) is spot on the money.

Maybe.

It depends upon how confident you and an experienced/qualified tech are the noise is coming from the bellhousing area.

I've never experienced a DMF failure but a clunking/knocking noise from the bellhousing area could be DMF failure based on what I read about others who've gone through a DMF with their cars.

Furthermore, a clunk or something similar when the clutch engages is even more indication a DMF, that is the dual mass portion of the flywheel having failed.

If the rest of the car checks out ok, if the engine starts ok from cold idles ok and runs tickity/clackity free from cold to hot for 30 minutes or so, and if everything is fluid tight and so on, if a qualified tech agrees that the noise is coming from the bellhousing area and agrees the noise is DMF and gives the rest of the car a thumb's up then get a quote for a DMF R&R and tack on something extra (my tech sources tell me that almost always one or more exhaust bolts/fasteners snaps and this adds to the cost of the tranny R&R (which is necessary of course to get to the DMF) then use this DMF R&R estimate to adjust your offer for the car.

Or make your offer based on the pre-purchase condition the car must be taken to a shop both you and the seller can agree upon -- Be careful: seller might want a local gas station to do the work but I'd want it done at a very highly recommended Porshe indy shop at the very least or even better at a Porsche dealer service if a good one is handy -- to have the DMF work done and you get the parts/labor warranty for the job.

At the same time you and the tech get a chance to view some of the internals of the car (the RMS and IMS area mainly) and from this you can get a better look up the old girl's (err car's) skirts.

But first you and your tech need to be sure that noise is coming from the bellhousing area.

Sincerely,

Macster.

 

But first you and your tech need to be sure that noise is coming from the bellhousing area.

Sincerely,

Macster.[/QUOTE]

Oddly enough when mine failed it made a "rattling noise" heard most prominently from the tailpipe you just never know until you pull it apart.