Swede_Matt

New to the Boxster board but not new to Porsches.

A friend of mine is selling a 2001 Boxster S.
73K miles, Bose sounds system, Full leather, manual. Current owner is the second owner. Silver with grey interior.

He is asking $12.5K. He said he's done the waterpump, AOS and some belt that he claimed typically fails on Boxsters. I'm taking a look at the car today but I expect it to be in very good condition knowing this guy.

Questions:
1. Is the price reasonable/good/fantastic?
2. What other typical repairs should I ask about to see if' it's been done?
3. Anything in particular to look out for or check?

Thanks !

racer

Sounds like it should have had the 60K service. Next major service is 90K.. but there is a "minor" service due at 75K miles.

The belt he refers to is the serpentine belt that drives the motor/accessories. Good that it and the wp have been replaced.

Items to look out for? well, the usual 70K+ mile issues
1) tires - rears especially
2) shocks/rubber bushings
3) clutch
4) oil leaks
5) paint condition
6) interior condition (its a convertible, is the int. bleached out from the sun? heavy wear/tear marks
7) the options that you want? ie, heated seats? litronic headlights? full leather? Sport suspension?

imho, $12,5 is a reasonable to good price. be sure to have it PPI'd by someone familiar with the model.

RollingArt

I think $12.5 is bordering on fantastic for an S model. You won't find a nice one for that or less.




Phil

Macster

Price I can't help you on. I'm not current on Boxster prices.

Ideally you want to see a stack of service/repair invoices to see what was done and when.

Not only do you want to see regular servicing, but some repair or service invoices for "little" things that showed the owner loved the car.

My working assumption is if there is no paperwork showing when what was done when all vital fluids/filters are due and I would budget the cost of having these done into what I would consider the market value of the car, that is subtract this amount. Say if the cost is $2K (just a number) and if you determine a car with no vital fluid servicing due is $12.5K then the car's value after adjustment is $10.5K.

The Boxster is just a used car so a thorough used car check out should catch most problems.

I like to recommend you turn the key on and verify the dash lights all come on then go off when the engine starts.

The engine should be dead cold. The A/C should be off. If you have this on the fans run all the time and the engine stays cooler than it would otherwise. You want the engine to run as hot as it can.

Let the engine idle and warm up and as it does so you listen to the engine for any signs of well, ticks, knocking, etc.

The engine may be a bit noisy at startup but it should quiet down in just a moment or two. (My 02 Boxster with 237K miles quiets down in a second or two, or less, once the engine rpms climb above the starter motor rpms.)

As the engine idles the idle should get smoother, not that it should be all that rough/uneven to begin with. Rpms should drop over time as the engne warms up.

Try to let the engine idle long enough so the engine is almost up to operating temperature.

Then have the seller take you for a test ride. I like 15 miles or so. (I'll tell you why below.) As a passenger your job is to pay attention to the engine, how it runs, sounds, the shifting, really everything. All 6 or even 7 if you have it senses should be on high alert.

Leave your cell phone off. Leave the radio/stereo off. Avoid conversing with the driver. Focus on the car. There's plenty of time to check out the stereo and such and talk to the driver after the test drive/ride.

Be sure the route allows the car to be used in a variety of ways: city with stop/go drivving, moderate speed blvd cruising, and highway speeds.

You want the driver to demo the engine's ability to pull strongly, cleanly, and smoothly from idle to redline and then I'd want the driver to upshift and continue to let the engine gain rpms.

When the car returns to the starting point instruct the driver to leave the engine on and idling. Get out and walk around and listen.

If so far so good then you take the car out as a driver and follow the same route and drive the car the same way.

This puts about 30 miles on the car which in my experience is enough (in most cases) that if there is a pending engine problem (a pending DTC) this amount of varied driving will give the Ecu sufficient time to log an error and turn on the check engine light.

Once back at the starting point then if all is still ok you can begin your basic car subsystem checkout. Doors, windows, lights. top. radio, etc. Everything. Assume nothing works until you verify it does.

If after all this you like the car and believe you can buy the car then arrange to have the car given a PPI.

Areas to pay special attention to: CV boots. S models are particularly hard on these. Tires should be n-rated, matching, and have good tread life and be worn evenly. Uneven wear might be an alignment problem, but it might be due to poor accident repair as well, or unrepaired accident damage (like the driver hit a curb or something).

Check the underside of the car for any fluid leaks. The RMS comes in for attention to be sure, but leaks from anywhere should be checked for. Check up front too. There are long coolant lines, fuel lines, and A/C lines and a couple of very costly to replace radiators and A/C condensors located up front costly to replace should one of them have a hole in it from either a rock hit or from corrosion from plant debris/trash collecting in the radiator ducting and retaining moisture and this of course corroding the A/C condensors or radiators.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Swede_Matt

Thanks for the replies guys.

Looked at the car today and here is the skinny:

Actual mileage is 78K miles.

Exterior is very nice. Only a few minor scratches. No dings or anything to be at all concerned about. The top is ok, has marks where it folds and some abrasions. Rear window is a bit milky/cloudy but can probably be recovered with a bit of plastic window fixer.
Tires are on their last leg and would need replacing soon.

Interior: Looks clean overall.
The bad:
Some scratches to the center console. I had a 996 so I know how easy it is to mess up the console.
Missing the passenger side sun-visor-mirror-cover.
Volume **** on stereo works randomly. If turned too fast it doesn't increase the volume.
Owner is a smoker so the car has been smoked in (as is evident by the cigarette lighter being used). However, the car doesn't stink of cigarettes so I think it will be alright for me.

The good
Leather is in great condition and shows no wear.
I couldn't see any fading due to sun exposure
I think the interior can look close to perfect with a little elbow grease.

Test Drive:
Car feels tight. No weird sounds, rattles etc. Clutch is very stiff and I'm guessing it's on it's last leg. I could not get the clutch to slip so it could be something else that's causing the stiff clutch. Car is stable when braking and has no pulling to the side. It accelerates without hesitation and pulls strong when I get on the gas.

Options:
XMY - ROLL-OVER BAR IN ARCTIC SILVER
XSC - PORSCHE CREST EMBOSSED IN HEADREST
XSX - SEAT BELTS IN GUARDS RED
XX2 - FOOTWELL LIGHTHTING
030 - SPORT-TYPE RUNNING GEAR
139 - SEAT HEATING SYSTEM, LEFT SEAT
239 - ?
288 - HEADLAMP WASHER
340 - SEAT HEATING SYSTEM, RIGHT SEAT
413 - 18" TURBO-LOOK-WHEEL
437 - Comfort Seat - Left - Electrically Adjustable
438 - Comfort Seat - Right- Electrically Adjustable
446 - CONCAVE HUB CAPE WITH COLOURED ESCUTCHEON
454 - Automatic Speed Control - USA, Canada
476 - PSM
490 - SOUND SYSTEM,
502 - Made in Valmet Finland
513 - BACK-SUPPORT (LORDOSE) RIGHT SEAT
537 - SEATING POSITION CONTROL FOR CONFORT SEAT, LEFT
551 - WIND DEFLECTOR
584 - Storage Box Above engine?
586 - BACK-SUPPORT (LORDOSE) LEFT SEAT
601 - Litronic Headlights
659 - Onboard computer
680 - DIGITAL SOUND PACKAGE
692 - CD-Changer "Porsche CD C-1"
981 - All leather lining
982 - Supple Leather Seats/Trim

Does anyone know the description of the options with "?" ?
This looks to be a very well optioned car. yes?

I'm scheduling a PPI for next week as soon as my Porsche mechanic can take it in. Hoping he can fit it in on Monday.

Looking forward to some feed-back from you guys. What do you think?

Swede_Matt

Macster, thank you very much for the detailed response!

I did check most of the points you brought up. I didn't know about the CV-joints but I'll make sure to ask about that during the PPI.

The car sounds right when idling, accelerating, de-accelerating etc. No ticking, rattlling, shaking etc.

The tires are worn but the postive thing is they look to be worn evenly.

The seller is bringing me the service paperwork tomorrow and I'll look trough it to see what has been done. I know for a fact that he has been taking it to a non-Porsche specific mechanic but at least it's supposedly a German Car mechanic.

I'll add that the car looks really nice and well kept when I looked at it from the outside. I'm very OCD when it comes to cars so I have to admit that the exterior is in very good condition. Interior was good but not very good.

VERBOTN

S-M:
I would not worry too much about some of the cosmetic bits. Some on RL have been know to take a perfectly good S and gut it for off road purposes. Speaking for myself I just offloaded a bunch of nearly new bits. BTW my 02-s has 22K on the clock but most of it at the track.

Great cars have fun

Macster

Heavy clutch is an indication the clutch is worn. It may not slip in fact I came across one Boxster -- a dealership Porsche tech told me about the car's clutch -- with a clutch so worn the friction material had worn down to the rivets and the rivets had worn circular depression around the face of the flywheel. The clutch still held just fine but was a bit grabby during engagement.

Surprisingly the tech told me he sent the flywheel out to be resurfaced.

Clutch job is probably $1500 if it is a $1. If flywheel not reusable the new dual mass flywheel runs around $1000.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Swede_Matt

Got a quote from my P-car guy and he said about $1500 for a new clutch but recommended to do the fork and some other bits and pieces along with and updated RMS when he is in there for a grand total of about $1700-$1800.

If the PPI confirms the clutch being bad (I'm certain it will) then I'll use that to get the price down. I doubt he will go any lower than $11K but for $13K($11K+$2K clutch) it still sounds like a good deal to me. I have gone through Craigslist, Autotrader etc and most Boxster S with similar miles are priced higher.

Macster

If I ever have the clutch in my 02 Boxster replaced (now with ahem 237K miles on the original clutch and yes I'm bragging a bit...) I'll certainly have any wear items replaced and this includes the fork/arm and any pivots, etc. There is no reason I can think of to scrimp in this area.

I'm hoping the flywheel will prove to be reusable. There's a test the tech can do to check the dual mass assembly's performance and if the test finds the performance ok the flywheel can be reused, provided of course there is no other reasons to reject the flywheel (like overheating, or cracks, excessive wear, etc.).

You have to become the price expert and you have the final say on the price. If you feel the dollar amount of work the car needs to bring it up to an acceptable condition along with the purchase price is acceptable to you then that is all that matters.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Swede_Matt

Exactly, completely agree with you and I'll have all of that done including an updated RMS while he is in there if I buy this car.

I talked to the seller and told him the clutch is probably bad and it will be about $2K to replace it. I told him that if the PPI confirms the clutch as bad I will ask for that to be deducted from the sales price....so it would be $10.5K. He is ok with that approach so it's all systems go for a PPI on Tuesday next week.

racer

Updated RMS is just a seal. The expensive part you want to review and likely upgrade is the IMS (intermediate shaft)

tone40

about IMS fixes. My RMS was dry & had the latest version, so I did not replace it then. If the IMS bearing fix had been available then (by LN Engineering & Jake), I would have done it for peace of mind. The fix, as identified in 2 Excellence articles, can be done without splitting the case.

You want to do a search in the archives of www. ppbb.com for all the commentary on that subject. Or, check out past issues of Excellence for the articles written by Tony Callas. On the contrary, as I understand it, there has not been a lot of miles logged on the retrofit IMS bearing yet.

But, I have spoken with Tony a few times at gatherings and he believes that it should be upgraded. I would get a firm quote as the price you mentioned sounds a bit low as compared to Tony's estimate of ~$3500 (Without a clutch, but included a physical & electronic assessment of the cams timing chains for weakness & ignition errors).

Macster also may have some additional opinions on this. He reportedly has over 237K miles on his Boxster.

Swede_Matt

My p-car mechanic does indeed do the IMS retrofit. We talked about it and he told me that if the car had more miles on it he would recommend it. He told me exactly what you are talking about...there has not yet been a substantial amount of miles but on the retrofit IMS and the sample size is still fairly small so the jury is still out on the long term benefits. I have the Excellence article as well. I used to have 996 so I'm all too familiar with the whole IMS issue.

The costs quoted to me are:

Clutch $1195
Fort etc :$150
RMS: $200
Flywheel: $900
IMS retrofit: Don't recall now exactly but I think that came out to another ~$1000

So if I do it all it will land on roughly $3500.

My mechanic is a great guy that I have used for many years for my previuos porsches so I know and trust him.

237K miles is very respectable! Good job Macster!

Mark944na86

A bit of an eye-opener on maintenance costs for this model. Why would the RMS be $200 extra once you have the clutch out? Is the seal itself expensive, or is there more labor involved for whatever reason?