Boxster S vs. 964
03-06-2010, 04:38 AM
#16
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I currently daily drive an '01 986S and prior to that I had a '90 964 C2 Cab, so I can shed a little light on the differences between the two cars. I've been extremely happy with both experiences and as similar as they appear on paper, one might suit you much more than the other depending on how you'll be using them.
Rather than try to cover all of the pros and cons of both vehicles, I'll just note a few of the major differences I've noticed.
The Boxster is WAY more practical than the 964. Putting the top up and down on the 964 is a chore. To put the top down you first have to unzip the plastic rear window so that there won't be any hard creases left by the process of folding. It's easier said than done, as you twist awkwardly in the driver's seat to perform this task. Then before you hold the button for the top to go down, the engine has to be OFF and the key turned to the auxiliary position. After the top is down, you'll want to put the tonneau cover on 1) because it looks better that way, and 2) Porsche recommends doing so before engaging in high-speed driving. So you then pull the latch by your feet to open the front trunk, get the cover out, and begin the mundane task of clipping it into place. You may or may not also opt to fold the rear seat backs flat to help you with positioning the cover. Even if you do all of this quickly it will still take you about 2 minutes, and you'll look kind of silly doing it in a parking lot or on the side of the road as you get caught in a freak rain shower.
Putting the top down on the Boxster, on the other hand, only involves unlocking a latch and holding a button down for about 12 seconds. This makes it so much easier to drive around topless and then put the top up if you have to park somewhere for a while. With the 964, I ended up parking the car with the top down a lot more just to avoid the hassle of that whole procedure I described above.
Besides the easier top, the Boxster also affords better ergonomics, a more modern interior, and a good amount of trunk space, though I will say that the sport seats I had on the 964 were among the most comfortable I've ever sat in. The sound system in the Boxster is loads better than that of the 964, though the stock head unit is a bit clumsy. I also appreciate the many more fan speed settings for the HVAC. While the A/C in my 964 worked fine, the fan only had 3 speeds and the two settings above the minimum got to be pretty loud.
The 964 may have back seats but that doesn't mean they're useful. The maximum number of people I've had in the Boxster and in the 964 is the same: 3. The back seats were pretty much only used when I threw grocery bags back there, and the 1 time I put an adult in the back, she had to sit sideways.
From the perspective of driving, I feel like the Boxster S is a better overall car. Its handling and grip is superb-- it always feels well-balanced whereas the 964 can be a bit tail-happy. The steering wheel on the 964 is VERY heavy, which feels nice at high-speeds but can wear out your arms in a parking lot. Straight-line performance seemed to be pretty equal, though note that my 986S is a manual and my 964 was a Tip.
The 964 certainly has a bit more character, IMO. A lot of this can be attributed to its air-cooled engine and the sound it makes, I think. When I first got the Boxster I was bothered by how quiet it is at low RPM's; it almost felt like it was humming. That said, the Boxster knows that at 4K+ RPM's, it's time to clear its throat. Being a bit older and more minimalistic, the 964 feels a bit more like a pure sports car. It also feels very well-built and the materials are of excellent quality. The Boxster is a bit more plasticky.
I've driven the Boxster far more than the 964 (40K miles as opposed to 8K) so it's hard for me to compare the two reliability-wise. The 964 never gave me any serious problems while the Boxster has had its original engine blow up at 55K miles. Thankfully I still have about 3 weeks left of the CPO warranty which fully covered the $14K replacement.
Bottom line:
Money aside, the Boxster is the better all-around car but the 964 has more character. If you want a car you can track and get groceries in the same day, the Boxster's for you. I suggest going with the 964 if you really love its styling and the panache of owning a classic Porsche.
Rather than try to cover all of the pros and cons of both vehicles, I'll just note a few of the major differences I've noticed.
The Boxster is WAY more practical than the 964. Putting the top up and down on the 964 is a chore. To put the top down you first have to unzip the plastic rear window so that there won't be any hard creases left by the process of folding. It's easier said than done, as you twist awkwardly in the driver's seat to perform this task. Then before you hold the button for the top to go down, the engine has to be OFF and the key turned to the auxiliary position. After the top is down, you'll want to put the tonneau cover on 1) because it looks better that way, and 2) Porsche recommends doing so before engaging in high-speed driving. So you then pull the latch by your feet to open the front trunk, get the cover out, and begin the mundane task of clipping it into place. You may or may not also opt to fold the rear seat backs flat to help you with positioning the cover. Even if you do all of this quickly it will still take you about 2 minutes, and you'll look kind of silly doing it in a parking lot or on the side of the road as you get caught in a freak rain shower.
Putting the top down on the Boxster, on the other hand, only involves unlocking a latch and holding a button down for about 12 seconds. This makes it so much easier to drive around topless and then put the top up if you have to park somewhere for a while. With the 964, I ended up parking the car with the top down a lot more just to avoid the hassle of that whole procedure I described above.
Besides the easier top, the Boxster also affords better ergonomics, a more modern interior, and a good amount of trunk space, though I will say that the sport seats I had on the 964 were among the most comfortable I've ever sat in. The sound system in the Boxster is loads better than that of the 964, though the stock head unit is a bit clumsy. I also appreciate the many more fan speed settings for the HVAC. While the A/C in my 964 worked fine, the fan only had 3 speeds and the two settings above the minimum got to be pretty loud.
The 964 may have back seats but that doesn't mean they're useful. The maximum number of people I've had in the Boxster and in the 964 is the same: 3. The back seats were pretty much only used when I threw grocery bags back there, and the 1 time I put an adult in the back, she had to sit sideways.
From the perspective of driving, I feel like the Boxster S is a better overall car. Its handling and grip is superb-- it always feels well-balanced whereas the 964 can be a bit tail-happy. The steering wheel on the 964 is VERY heavy, which feels nice at high-speeds but can wear out your arms in a parking lot. Straight-line performance seemed to be pretty equal, though note that my 986S is a manual and my 964 was a Tip.
The 964 certainly has a bit more character, IMO. A lot of this can be attributed to its air-cooled engine and the sound it makes, I think. When I first got the Boxster I was bothered by how quiet it is at low RPM's; it almost felt like it was humming. That said, the Boxster knows that at 4K+ RPM's, it's time to clear its throat. Being a bit older and more minimalistic, the 964 feels a bit more like a pure sports car. It also feels very well-built and the materials are of excellent quality. The Boxster is a bit more plasticky.
I've driven the Boxster far more than the 964 (40K miles as opposed to 8K) so it's hard for me to compare the two reliability-wise. The 964 never gave me any serious problems while the Boxster has had its original engine blow up at 55K miles. Thankfully I still have about 3 weeks left of the CPO warranty which fully covered the $14K replacement.
Bottom line:
Money aside, the Boxster is the better all-around car but the 964 has more character. If you want a car you can track and get groceries in the same day, the Boxster's for you. I suggest going with the 964 if you really love its styling and the panache of owning a classic Porsche.
03-07-2010, 11:23 AM
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This same thread is running on the 964 list on this site. I came across that thread first, since I was in the 964 area since I'm looking for one now. That thread certainly has a 964 bias to it, and this one is certainly more Boxster oriented. Even though I'm looking for a 964, I have a Boxster S, and my post is definitely in favor of the Boxster. Here it is in case you don't want to pop over there:
First, on chick cars, face the facts. Anything that is either a convertible or has less than 8 cylinders is going to be considered a chick car by someone - yes, including the 911. If you are worried about driving a chick car, go buy a Ford F650 pick up and be done with it. Seriously.
Second, the Boxster. The car is an awesome vehicle. It's been voted by many of the car magazines to be the BEST sports car for many many years running. And there is a reason. It had the fastest slalom on the R&T tests for quite some time, certainly beating out the 911 and every other car on the list. Compared to the 996 cars at that time, there was no comparison in fun sports car driving. Then again, the 997 is a whole other ball game - to me.
Third, on the RMS, it is wildly overstated. Talk to any mechanic who actually really work on them, compared to the overblown rumor that runs through the internet. And, keep in mind, under the worst case scenario, all it means is you are getting oil on your garage floor, not catastrophic failure.
Now, admittedly I am biased. I have a 2000 Boxster S (and a 1973 911, which I've owned for 22 years). That said, there are four things about my Boxster that contribute to that feeling, whereas I am not all that wild about the car without them: (1) it has the Porsche factory sport exhaust for Boxsters in 2003 and on with sport cats, thus giving it the wildest, ripping exhaust sound around, without the resonance that the aftermarket exhaust have, (2) it has the Porsche factory 997 sport shifter, which cost $150 from the dealer (! you can't buy air from them for that) which gives it a tight, short, appropriate feel (though I HATED the B&M shifter that I had on it, which was too stiff and too notchy), (3) it has full leather interior, yes not sporty, but admittedly gives it the quality feel that I felt was missing on the plastic stock interior, and (4) it's an S - not because it has gobs of additional power, which it does not, but simply because the whole package gives it a sporting, lively feel that I thought was not good enough on the non-S.
So that's my OPINION, and I'm sticking to it.
(oh, and I'm looking to add a 964 to the stable for my wife to drive, and give my daughter our MDX).
Jay
First, on chick cars, face the facts. Anything that is either a convertible or has less than 8 cylinders is going to be considered a chick car by someone - yes, including the 911. If you are worried about driving a chick car, go buy a Ford F650 pick up and be done with it. Seriously.
Second, the Boxster. The car is an awesome vehicle. It's been voted by many of the car magazines to be the BEST sports car for many many years running. And there is a reason. It had the fastest slalom on the R&T tests for quite some time, certainly beating out the 911 and every other car on the list. Compared to the 996 cars at that time, there was no comparison in fun sports car driving. Then again, the 997 is a whole other ball game - to me.
Third, on the RMS, it is wildly overstated. Talk to any mechanic who actually really work on them, compared to the overblown rumor that runs through the internet. And, keep in mind, under the worst case scenario, all it means is you are getting oil on your garage floor, not catastrophic failure.
Now, admittedly I am biased. I have a 2000 Boxster S (and a 1973 911, which I've owned for 22 years). That said, there are four things about my Boxster that contribute to that feeling, whereas I am not all that wild about the car without them: (1) it has the Porsche factory sport exhaust for Boxsters in 2003 and on with sport cats, thus giving it the wildest, ripping exhaust sound around, without the resonance that the aftermarket exhaust have, (2) it has the Porsche factory 997 sport shifter, which cost $150 from the dealer (! you can't buy air from them for that) which gives it a tight, short, appropriate feel (though I HATED the B&M shifter that I had on it, which was too stiff and too notchy), (3) it has full leather interior, yes not sporty, but admittedly gives it the quality feel that I felt was missing on the plastic stock interior, and (4) it's an S - not because it has gobs of additional power, which it does not, but simply because the whole package gives it a sporting, lively feel that I thought was not good enough on the non-S.
So that's my OPINION, and I'm sticking to it.
(oh, and I'm looking to add a 964 to the stable for my wife to drive, and give my daughter our MDX).
Jay
03-08-2010, 01:47 AM
#18
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The 993 and earlier Porsches are "classic". The windshield and roof feel tall, because you are kind of sitting on the floor of a flat chassis pan, and the pedals come up out of the floor just like an old VW. The Boxster and '99+ 911's are much more modern cars in terms of design and handling refinement, ergonomics, climate control, but yes, they also have more plastic (a full leather interior does wonders to fix this). I'd also agree that all stock Boxsters need a louder exhaust. One of the things that sold me on the Boxster at the time (buying new) was that from the seats forward, it is basically the same car as the Carrera (with the bonus that it is a mid-engined car). It is a blast to drive both on twisty highways as well as on the track. (I just need to save up some money for a Carrera engine...).
I have an '01S, which had an intermediate type of cupholders (from Audi). I removed them when I set the car up for Road/Track use. I think the glass '03 top is not as attractive or aerodynamic, but the first thing to go on my top was the plastic window. But I have always coveted the '03 glovebox!
The 03 has a glass rear window, cupholders and a glove box, so keep that in mind when you decide.
03-08-2010, 02:44 PM
#19
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Bottom line:
Money aside, the Boxster is the better all-around car but the 964 has more character. If you want a car you can track and get groceries in the same day, the Boxster's for you. I suggest going with the 964 if you really love its styling and the panache of owning a classic Porsche.
03-08-2010, 04:00 PM
#20
Ironman 140.6
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As for the choices of cars... Boxster vs. 964 (even a Cab) is apples to oranges in many respects. Mid-engine vs. rear-engine. Water cooled vs. air cooled. Roadster vs. cab/coupe. The 964 has rear seats, but you try sitting in one for any length of time. I use the rear seats in my 996 Turbo for cargo space, not for carrying passengers.
You need to make up your mind which to get.
You need to make up your mind which to get.
Driving the 964 is like steping into a Porsche time machine. All of the classic sounds, smells, and feeling is all there. The only big driving negative is that Porsche built quite a bit of understeer into the car to tame it's tail wagging ways (993 got a new rear suspension). The car is a great classic, but getting a little long in tooth for DD miles IMHO. Additionally if you go that route make sure you ifnd one that is well sorted. The motors are strong, but rebuilds are big $$.
The 986 will feel worlds apart from a 964. Modern climate controls, good heat and A/C, etc. Furthermore while these cars may have somewhat similar straightline performance a stock 986S will devastate a stock 964 in the twisty bits. The feel and sounds of a Boxster in the twistys is something very special. Probably easier to live with as a DD. Finally, they are pretty inexpensive to own and maintain provided you do not have one of the rare (but still present) engine problems. The '02's have a nice upgrade with the glass rear window.
Simply put they are both great cars, but no stranger on a forum can make this choice for you. You need to go on some test drives.
Last edited by Ray S; 03-09-2010 at 12:36 PM.
03-09-2010, 02:58 AM
#21
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My dad has a 91 964 Targa and an 06 Boxster (non-S). I've been lucky enough to be able to drive both for quite a few miles. The Boxster may not be quite as fast but the driving experience is so much nicer to me. The Boxster *may* even be more fun than my 997. They really have improved the cars over the years and what Porsche has done to enhance the feeling such as the sound, the steering, shifter, seats, etc is really amazing.
+1 on the test drives
+1 on the test drives
03-09-2010, 12:24 PM
#22
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bic and Jay, great posts!
I especially liked this quote "First, on chick cars, face the facts. Anything that is either a convertible or has less than 8 cylinders is going to be considered a chick car by someone - yes, including the 911. If you are worried about driving a chick car, go buy a Ford F650 pick up and be done with it. Seriously."
That made me laugh my **** off! It makes me smile everytime some 5 foot nothing / 150 pound guy with something to compensate for tells me my car is for chicks.
I always want to tell them that there are these devices they sell on the internet that claim to elongate that source of their inferiority complex.
I especially liked this quote "First, on chick cars, face the facts. Anything that is either a convertible or has less than 8 cylinders is going to be considered a chick car by someone - yes, including the 911. If you are worried about driving a chick car, go buy a Ford F650 pick up and be done with it. Seriously."
That made me laugh my **** off! It makes me smile everytime some 5 foot nothing / 150 pound guy with something to compensate for tells me my car is for chicks.
I always want to tell them that there are these devices they sell on the internet that claim to elongate that source of their inferiority complex.
03-10-2010, 07:44 PM
#23
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I actually just bought the 2001 Boxster S that the Op was considering. It's my first porsche and it's an amazing car. The car is silver/Boxster red and was so insanely optioned up that it must have cost $72k new. I bought the car online and I drove it back to Albuquerque this week. I must thank Joe Norris for the easy and pleasurable transaction. Indeed the OP was right- Euroclassics in Richmond Va has their stuff together. I bought a 4 year 48k b2b warranty that takes care of any problems that may arise with IMS and RMS etc. The car has only 33k miles and pasm litronics full leather pkg Power articulating sport seats etc. I'm very glad the OP hesitated but I wish him luck in finding the right Porsche for him.
