graham964

I am thinking about buying one or the other. My problem is that the power and weight are very similar giving I would have thought similar performance but my budget will only buy a 120k mile plus 20 year old 964 or alternatively a 70K mile 6 year old boxster s.
I guess the boxster is a newer design but does the 964 do something better whch compensates for the greater milage and age?

Thanks in advance for any comments

cheers

Graham

Macster

it will take a test drive of both cars to decide.

Sincerely,

Macster.

StatmanDesigns

I have owned a 1984 3.2L 911 cabriolet, a 1989 3.2L 911 coupe, a 1996 993 C2 coupe, and now a 2000 Boxster S. All of my Porsches have been second cars and not daily drivers. My current Boxster S is by far the most fun of these cars to drive, and I would NEVER consider a 3.2L 911 or a 964 as a replacement (which are in about the same price range). However, I would consider another 993 coupe, but they are generally $10K+ more expensive than the 2000-2003 Boxster S. The 993 coupes simply look better and that is the reason I would go back to that model.

After living with the Boxster it would be really difficult to go back to an older 911 cabriolet other than the 1 button operation of the 996 and newer cars. The older 911 convertible tops 1983-1998 suck compared to the Boxster.

Charlie C

If you are thinking of a cabriolet, then the Boxster is the better bet. Beginning with the 996 (911) and Boxster, the convertible roof is a push button fold flat operation. When the top is down, it's clear view rearward. Previous to that, when the convertible was folded down, it stuck out with kind of an ugly profile. If you're comparing a Boxster to a 911 coupe, only you can make that decision based on a drive in each.

I like the modern conveniences of the new cars 993, 996, and Boxsters.

In any event, you can't go wrong. You'll end up with a nice car either way.

cobalt

You are the first person who I know has owned both and have ever heard say that.

It all depends on what you want from your car, you obviously know what you want from yours.

Although I can pick up 2001 Boxster S with 50k miles in the $10-$15k range and you can't touch a 964/993 coupe for any where near that little with comparable mileage.

mborkow

I've owned both (993 C4 and Boxster S) and I have also said (much to the chagrin of the 993 board) that the Boxster S does everything better. The only problem with buying a Boxster is depreciation...

Sure RMS scares me...but that's nothing compared to needing a valve job on a 993 (which every 993 MY96+ will need eventually)

cobalt

I won't argue that the Boxster is not a capable car because it is. The cayman is even more so. IMO the cayman is the most capable platform Porsche has made to date. However, for my needs and preferences the 964's do it all and offer a feel and experience that IMO blows all other away. So for a DD or even a track car they are fine but I would never trade my 964 for one. Although I would never drive a sports car as a DD either. been there done that>

I prefer the challenge of mastering the 964 and making it easy like the cayman does is not what I am looking for. There is something about the way the 964 communicates or punishes you (depending on if you have done it right or wrong) that is missing with the boxsters or caymans.

As far as them doing it better. That is debatable. Driving with equally advanced drivers on most tracks not even a cayman S with fully modified suspension can out run me in my 964. It is a battle but one that is not easily won for either car and they have far more of an advantage with their mid engine platform. As we know all it takes is $$ to make one better than the other just have to decide which one is more to your liking.

StatmanDesigns

Cobalt, clearly your signature says it all... '93 964 C2 MANY UPGRADES. I think the op was looking for honest comparisons between the cars he was considering. Clearly anyone looking at a boxster is interested in a convertible, so a modified 964 C2 really isn't appropriate comparison material. If you want a convertible in the $20K price range and you want a used Porsche, there is no comparison between any 1983-1998 911 convertible and a Boxster S. If, OTOH, you are looking for absolutely maximum performance and getting around a race track as fast as possible, there are many debates to be had as to what the "best" Porsche might be.

But, seriously, let's be realistic. Only a very small percentage of Porsche owners ever get to a racetrack, even to watch a race, let alone drive on the track. Ultimate quickness, top speed, and corner ability, are nice to have and use for comparisons, but mostly nobody cares. No 911 in the OP price range is a fast car by any standard used today, and the Boxster S is just as quick. The performance numbers just don't vary that much. The Boxster is just more fun, unless somebody wants to use their Porsche as a daily driver, then the Boxster is just inconveniently small. Although 911's are too small for me as well.

In your previous post you suggest 2000 Boxster S are available readily in the $10-15K price range. I haven't seen those prices for clean, well maintained examples, but I haven't looked much lately. Not sure what your point was regarding that, but it is even more incentive to buy a Boxster S. I have a bit of experience with older 911s as was noted in my previous post, and I loved every one of my previous cars. But for the money, today, right now, I would always choose my current Boxster S over my previous Porsches.

graham964

Hi All
Thanks for the feedback
cheers

Graham

cobalt

Daniel,

We all have different needs from our cars, there is no denying that. I have been driving Porsche's for over 30 years and have so many friends who own Porsche's. I have driven all models except some of the newest and the CGT which I have only had the opportunity to sit in so far. I have also driven most every early sports car of the 60's 70's and 80's after helping bring some 70+ cars to the US in the 80's via the gray market.

My comments are based on driving both stock and modified versions of these cars. I have a few friends that have switched from 993's to boxsters and some like it and others regret their decision. I have seen some very nicely set up boxsters that are amazingly capable cars and the same goes with 964's, 993's etc etc. Each new version of the boxster and the cayman see improvement and make the cars easier to drive and more capable out of the box. Although today there are many cars that are equally as capable, I would never consider owning any of them. (this includes your n/a 996/997's non GT versions) Today's cars are all about technology and not about what I grew up understanding a sports car to be. Out of the many I have owned only 2 Porsche's I could live with in stock form. My Cayenne turbo because it is a commuter car and my 928 GTS because it was one of the few Porsche's i would consider comfortably set up from the factory for its intended purpose. All the others I feel need some tweaking to tune out the average driver feel that Porsche has tuned into them to entice a broad range of customers. For me driving a Porsche is the combination of performance, style, and the experience behind the wheel. This includes the sounds, smells and overall rush one gets when driving the car.

So IMO comparing a clean stock 964 vs a clean stock boxster S is comparing apples and oranges. Assuming both cars are not in need of new shocks or need work I feel even with the old schools suspension the 964 is a car that offers a sports car feel and drive that gives far superior road feel and communicates with its driver far better than its younger siblings. I find the boxster to be very capable and if you are one for a rag top it offers the open road experience. However, I don't feel it offers the sports car feel and excitement that the earlier cars do. I can get that from most any new car so I chose the older cars to excite me the way these newer cars do not. IMO there is nothing more well suited to do this than a 964. It has the old school looks and charm, the air cooled sound and rear engine biased 911 feel which is so unique with modern improvements the earlier cars lacked. It turns heads far much more so than any newer 911, boxster, cayman etc. Has already depreciated as far as it can and is not only challenging to drive but rewarding too.

I grew up driving 911's on the autobahn full out for hours at a time and drove 914's and other earlier Porsche's when they were new. Like music and art driving is a form of expression and they take on a different meaning as you grow with them vs having it all to sift threw, years of change without experiencing the change itself takes on a different meaning when it comes to things like this.

I guess it depends on the Porsche drivers you know but more than 50% of the ones I know have some track experience and are looking to drive their cars for what they were intended to do. A boxster is a very capable car and when pushed to the limit will excite and thrill but a 964 can offer this same experience without having to push it to the limit. From the second you turn the key and hear the air cooled engine to the acceleration and feel of the G50 tranny and the linkage vs cable shifter the direct throttle control vs Drive by wire all these things are what IMO make up what a sports car should be.

So if you want an open top and an easier car to drive daily that is equally as capable the boxster is your choice. If you are looking for a fun weekend car to drive the snot out of and put a smile on your face for its performance and not the sun and wind in your hair the 964 is a great place to start.

Enjoy your car it is all Porsche. So long as you are happy who cares what I or anyone else thinks. Although there is a lot to be said for the older cars. Just because they aren't new or modern or have cup holders doesn't make them any less capable or exciting to drive just a different experience which may or may not suite your needs.

First986NJ

I understand what Anthony is saying, but I think that this is essentially an argument that technology has removed the "true sports car" feel from the cars - in his opinion at least. I respect that opinion, but I would submit instead that it merely advances the same.

Why for example, should a driver have to be concerned with a tendency toward snap oversteer, if a mid engine design promotes a more neutral chassis and overcomes that concern ? Why should a driver be considered less of one because he makes use of a stability management system or a traction control system. They are technologies that maintain a safer environment for the driver. They still can't overcome the laws of physics however, so the notion that they can make anyone capable of driving considerably harder or better is flawed. I also differ with the position that the systems don't provide the driver with feedback, as I have seen others suggest. The PSM system for example CAN be felt operating (as I have occasionally pushed the envelop a bit too hard and felt the system operate) and therefore does provide feedback to the driver if he/she is knowledgeable enough to accept it. Fly by wire systems and cable shifters are just a sign of the times. I have driven plenty of hard linkaged cars, and I can't really say I miss ,or long for, the feeling of the hard linkages, neither with the throttle nor the B&M short throw shifter.

I guess I just have never really agreed with the conceptual notion that technology advances ruin the experience. I think they just change it. I think a true "driver" will lap well, and probably fairly equally, with either level of technology, it will just require a little less work with one. The average enthusiast driver however, will have a more enjoyable, and safer, experience as a result of technological advances and he won't even miss the bit of feel that he is sacrificing.

cobalt

I see your point. However for me the change as you put it numbs the experience. It is like a shot of Novocain. My ability to control the idiosyncrasies of my car are what make the experience so thrilling and for me enjoyable. I find when yo make a mistake in the earlier cars you are painfully aware of it. When you master the car and find the groove that rhythm that comes from doing everything correctly there is a silence a feeling of time slowing down that lets you build speed and takes you to a place I have never been able to find in cars that are always sending electronic signals to me. Those signals become noise to me that i prefer not to hear.

I push my car 10-11/10ths and I know when I have screwed up or mastered it in my 964. To me the challenge is knowing the cars limits precisely and taking it right to the edge and then reeling it back in. This is the biggest rush I feel you can have behind the wheel. When you add electronics you must compensate for them or them for you. I initially had this issue with ABS and it took me a while to get accustomed to it kicking in vs knowing the limits of threshold braking. I still overpower my ABS occasionally but will always prefer a non ABS equipped car. However for daily driving I would not have it any other way. These technologies serve a purpose for commuting but again I feel they take away from the pure driving experience on track or alone on some back road.

As far as being more enjoyable this is purely subjective . For me the thrill is gone in these newer cars. The technology is so apparent and the end result is not me but the electronics that are doing the driving. I have AX my 964 C2 and a Cayman S in the same day on the same course and I can guarantee you my times in the cayman were good not because of my ability but because of the cars correcting my mistakes since I didn't know it's limits. If I were to make the same mistakes in the C2 I would have lost a second or 2 where that was not the case in the Cayman. So IMO it is the car making me a better driver than I am. One could say that you can now take it to a higher level with these aids but I can also learn to do that on my own and I feel I am a better drive for not having them. I do know that although I enjoyed my experiences AXing the cayman I found my heart pumping and my adrenaline flowing so much more when I climbed back into my C2.

Again this is just my opinion and like I said earlier they are all good cars, they are different and offer a different experience. It is like choosing a mate in life you have to know they are the right one for you and nobody can or should tell you otherwise. Drive what you feel most comfortable with. For me it will always be the older mid 90's Porsche's. That is what I am most content with and I will always enjoy.

THXBABE

Back to what the OP asked

It will depend a lot on what type of driving experience you want. I use by Boxster as a daily driver. One of my buddies uses his 993 as a daily drive. I have no problems at all with ease of use. Having 2 trunks is great!

I love his car, he loves mine. We have driven each other's cars at the track. They have very different characteristics.

I wanted a convertible and don't much like the look of the 911 cab. I find my car easier to drive and live with on a daily basis. He loves the 993 experience and will put up with the heavier clutch, rear engined charateristics etc because he likes his cars a bit more raw.

As to usability - you can even take a Boxster fishing. Pic below is my car with 250 lbs of fish in the trunk after a day of fishing 40 or so miles west of the Marquesas (off of Key West)

cobalt

I don't know if I could load any of my cars up with 250 pounds of fish. At least it's fresh. LOL But I don't fish, won't touch the stuff unless it is in steak form or has a shell. Looks like you had a good catch that day or is it one big fish you have in that bag?

I guess I own too many cars. I have different needs and uses for each. Although I could never do that with a 964, lucky if I can fit a bag in the front with the roll bar and GT3 seats it doesn't accommodate much more than me and a passenger. Although my 944 S2 and 928 could but putting it in the interior might be a permanent mistake.

Let us know what you decide. There is a model Porsche out there for everyone. If your as crazy as me or some others you might find one day you have a variety to choose from.

THXBABE

It was a bunch of different fish acutally. We had a great day!

As to Porsche variety - I will have a 993 one day