JET951

Hi Doug , excellent idea about the landshark link , for those who like a look and read , make sure you read all the posts it makes for interesting reading.
Now Doug I do not need you to respond to my questions because I already know the answers , but this is not for me but for the average Porsche owner/enthusiast who reads Rennlist and who is not a 30+ years Porsche experienced technician like myself and they need to know and you must know the answers surely ?
Now as we all see you are recommending Non Porsche approved oils in these later watercooled flat six engines which do not meet the required ACEA A3/B3 rating , which as you must appreciate leaves you in the unenviable position of being very exposed when anything goes wrong , what are you going to say to the individual of say a 996 or a 986 that has been on a high detergent high ZDDP oil at your recommendation and they have a engine malfunction in the future , they are not going to believe anyone but Porsche or Mobile because they do not recommend the above diesel oils at all for these engines .
Its human nature Doug ,when it all goes pear shaped you will be a sitting target .
Oh By the way Doug there will be many more questions that the average Porsche enthusiast may find interesting and I feel confident you will oblige in answering them .
Regards .BB.

Doug Hillary

Hi,
in regard to the mis-information Posted above readers can access the Links provided below and form their own opinion. Please note that both of lubricants I referred to are suitable for use in high performance petrol engines and meet the latest API petrol engine Quality rating "SM" and exceed the previous "SL" rating. Both far exceed the ACEA's A3/B3/B4 specifications - A3/B3/B4 is the starting point for Porsche Approval.

They are NOT on Porsche's Approval List as I noted earlier as they are aimed at a "Commercial" market - but both exceed their requirements!

I am using Delvac 1 5W-40 in my Boxster with Porsche AG Approval and under extended Warranty

I would also use M1 0W-40 in any new Porsche as it is on Porsche's Approval List - such is the case with my CLK Benz!

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...ruck_5W-40.asp

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub..._ESP_5W-40.asp

JET951

Doug,

question) what is the reason that Porsche does not recommend the above diesel oils in the 986 and 996 models or any other Porsche for that matter ?

question) Why leave your self exposed like this , or is there something wrong with the normal M1 petrol engine oil that you are trying to tell us all ?
Please Doug , inform us on the reason why the above diesel oils that are high in ZDDP and detergents are better than normal M1 that's recommended by Porsche .

Glad to see you opening up a bit better

Regards . BB.

softroop

Here's a question related to the OP. Mobil 1 5W 30 was on the Porsche Approved List. It's listed in my Owners Manual (02 986). So if nothing changed regarding the properties of Mobil 1 5W 30 between the time it was on the approved list and the date of the (updated) list where it was now not approved, how can it now be "dangerous" to use? I could understand not using an oil grade that's never been on any approved list, and I understand how an updated list would apply to newer cars, but if a grade was on a previous list, how does it all of a sudden become dangerous just because it's no longer on the approved list? I would assume that if it's dangerous now (not on the list), it was just as dangerous when it was on the list!

Macster

base and I don't recall seeing any weight of oil below 40 listed. Not even 10w-30 oil.

These economy oils (economy cause they lower friction losses from using a heavier oil) do not supply sufficient protection against high temperature break down.

I'm not where I can check my Boxster's OM for oils but would advise you to double check your OM just to be sure 5w-30 listed as ok to use.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Doug Hillary

Hi,
softroop - Yes the "Oil Recommendation Chart" in the OM does include SAE30 lubricants. However all lubricants listed are tied to the prevailing (or expected) ambient temperature range. TISBs always overwhelm the OM - these are produced in the light of user, service experience and Warranty exposure

As usual Macster is on the ball IMO!

The last TISB to include SAE30 lubricants was in 1999 I believe. Typically SAE30 lubricants such as 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 are not formulated to enable a suitable HTHS viscosity (at 150C) to be maintained for extended periods. Porsche has long had a minimum requirement in this regard (non VW engine families) which is part of their Approval and Listing processes

I have just returned from an extended visit to Zuffenhausen and the Nurburgring. I spoke with many Owners, race Fleet engineers and, privateers - as well as Factory service persons - the 0W-40 viscosity is the almost universal choice. The most common viscosity on the latest TISB remains 5W-40 (around 65%), the balance is 0W-40 with only one SAE50 lubricant Listed - M1 5W-50

I hope that this helps a little

adrian sanchez

Hi to all, i just have a simple question. I have a 98 boxster with 96k miles on it and i live in the central valley of california. I've been using 10w-40 Mobil 1 ever since i first changed the oil the first time. My question is, is this the correct oil type for this model, year and type of weathers we have here which is mediteranian, 6 months of cold and 6 months of summer. Thanks in advance

Macster

The oil is probably ok to use. However, I have to point out that no 10w-40 oil is approved for use in that engine. This info comes from the latest approved oils list and not from extrapolating what is printed in the owners manual that any SAE/API/ACXX oil that meets certain requirements is approved. Apparently, Porsche doesn't consider those standards good enough or has its own selection criteria that excludes some oils. Or some oil makers simply do not submit their oils for approval either because they know the oils will not be approved or don't want or need the business.

Unless the temps get down to -25C you do not have to use 0w-40 oil.

Now I live in Livermore, which probably has a similar climate to where you are and this last oil change (IIRC Jan of this year) I had the dealer fill my 02 Boxster (with at that time around 240K miles on its engine) with Mobil 1 0w-40 oil. I've added around 4K miles to the car's odometer since driving the in all kinds of weather from near freezing (you know we've had a cool spring and early summer) to over 100F and the engine has not blown up. I just today had to add a half a quart of oil to bring the oil level from mid-range to one bar under max., so the engine's oil consumption is about where it was with other oils.

My Turbo gets Mobil 1 5w-50 oil which to simplify things will be the oil I use in the Boxster its next and subsequent oil changes.

(Might add I have driven my Boxster for many many thousands of miles with Mobil 0w-40 oil in the engine and driven the car in all kinds of weather, from below freezing and falling snow and ice, to drenching rain to blazing hot desert temps reaching in some cases up to 116F and neither the oil nor the engine has suffered any. But I change the oil every 5K miles.)

If you want to use a 5w-40 oil there are various Mobil oils and other brands of oils to select from. However, not all Mobil 5w-40 oils nor all other brands of 5w-40 oils approved for use.

I think I have a PDF of the approved oils list a Porsche tech gave me (in hardcopy form) that I can email you (rather than typing the info in) if you send me a private email and include your email address to which you want the PDF sent.

Added: Mobil 1 5w-50 oil might actually be better for the Boxster, at least my 02 Boxster, than it is for my 03 Turbo. I was looking through some air temp, coolant temp data the other day that I collected over time from my Turbo and noted that even on very warm days (in the low 90s) the coolant temp never got above 186F.

In looking through some similar data collected from my Boxster I noticed the coolant temp under similar circumstances ran in some cases 30 degrees (or a bit more) higher than that, up to 216F and even 218F under some conditions.

Thus the Boxster engine of the two engines might be the better candidate in which to run 5w-50 oil while the Turbo engine given it runs cooler might be better off with 5w-40 or 0w-40 oil. It is after all the '40' that is the high temp viscosity number.

While these engines do not want to be under-oiled, that is filled with too light a viscosity of oil, like 5w-30 oil, they really shouldn't be over-oiled either, that is running a 5w-50 or even a 5w-60 oil (if one existed and I don't think it does, but there are some who run a 10w-60 oil) unless oil required.

Sincerely,

Macster.

ChrisJP

[QUOTE]I think I have a PDF of the approved oils list a Porsche tech gave me (in hardcopy form) that I can email you (rather than typing the info in) if you send me a private email and include your email address to which you want the PDF sent.[QUOTE]
Hi Macster
Could you consider "pasting it" on the forum?
I also have one laying around, I will look for it 2night.

Macster

[quote=ChrisJP;8731776][QUOTE]I think I have a PDF of the approved oils list a Porsche tech gave me (in hardcopy form) that I can email you (rather than typing the info in) if you send me a private email and include your email address to which you want the PDF sent.If you join renntech.org (costs a few dollars but it is worth it not only for the oil PDF but for access to OBD2 error codes and other things) you can view maybe even download the thing from there.

From the printed copy I received from a tech I made a PDF copy and I supplied an electronic version of this to Mike F. and since Mike has sort of pulled back from active Boxster participation he gave a copy to Pedro and you can find the PDF here:

http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_3/P...oved_Oils.html

Sincerely,

Macster.

ChrisJP

OK thanks, the list I have is the same, coming from Pedro's site as well.

adrian sanchez

thanks 4 the site macster. pedros garage helps alot .