iflyadesk

Hello. My name is Sam, and I'm new to these forums. Let me apologize in advance for the length of this post, but I have some very specific questions and don't have access to any Boxster racer friends (been racing Miatas too long) so I'm starting from scratch. I've owned my 02 Boxster S since February, but have only driven it on the street. A few things have changed recently, and I have some questions about setup, but first a little background.

I've been doing HPDEs for 5yrs, instructing for 3yrs, and just started wheel-to-wheel racing this year. I have really not enjoyed wheel to wheel (I raced in SCCA's Spec Miata). I really can't afford to race anything else regularly, so I sold my race car and all the spares and decided to time trial my daily driver, a 2002 Boxster S, in NASA's TTC class.

First, though, I had to see if the car even had a prayer of being competitive. So, I drove up to a NASA-RM event this past weekend at Pueblo Motorsports Park. This was the first time I had ever driven the car or the track. It is completely stock with street tires. The only thing I did to the car was add Pagid Black pads with ATE Blue fluid. Even so, I was able to get within 0.3 sec of the first place driver in my class (a 350Z with coilovers, Nitto R-comps, and aftermarket control arms). Not too shabby! So, I think the Boxster has what it takes to win in this class.

So, how to setup? Well, I just moved on base (I'm stationed at Kirtland AFB), and I now live 700ft from my office, so my baby doesn't even leave the garage except to go to the track or for a spirited drive in the mountains. Therefore, ride harshness is not too important (I have to drive hundreds of miles to most tracks, so 1000+lb/in springs might be a bit extreme). However, I have daily driven a supercharged miata that had 550lb/in springs in a 2100lb car, so it really doesn't bother me. Yes, I understand the difference between spring rate and wheel rate... I was just quoting numbers for the purpose of generalization.

I have one goal: go as fast as possible for at least one lap. I'd like to lower the car as well, because I think it would look sharp. My only constraints are "points." To stay in TTC, I can only "spend" 19 of these points. For example, springs are 2pts, shocks 3pts, DA coilovers (<$3k retail) 5pts, sway bars 2pts. Tires are a bit complicated. 255mm is the base size for TTC, so to go wider costs points...10mm +1, 20mm +4, 30mm +7, 40mm +10, etc. And then tires are assessed points based on tread wear and compound. R-comps: <40 10pts, 50-90 7pts, 100+ 5pts, non R-comps 0pts.

So, some quick math shows 255 Hoosiers R6s (10pts), coilovers <$3k retail (5pts), and sway bars (2pts) add up to 17pts, which keeps me in my class.

Now, I have enough cash to get the good stuff, but that would take away from how many events I could go to, and I tend to always side with seat time over mods. So, if there are some shortcuts, by all means clue me in. For example, the stock shocks are Bilsteins if I understand correctly, so maybe some threaded perches and new springs would be sufficient. If the H&R or Eibach Prokit springs are sufficient, boy would that be easy! I've never raced a car with "progressive" springs, so forgive me for being a little skeptical. However, maybe using NASCAR logic (soft spring, big bar), I could compensate for soft springs with a honkin' bar. What are your thoughts/experiences?

The final is a question of tire. I am seriously considering the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup so that I don't need a tire trailer and hitch (not to mention a second set of wheels). This opens up a lot of "budget" for more track time Have any of you raced the Pilot Sport Cup? Otherwise, I was going to run a BFG R1, because they supposedly stick better than Hoosiers, are more controllable at the limit, and last longer too.

FWIW, I am not the kind of guy who slaps on the triple adjustable shocks, and tunes like crazy. I'm a professional analyst, and I know for a fact that having too many variables can cause someone to tweak their way into a disaster. I prefer to have non adjustable shocks, fix the spring rates and ride heights, keep constant tire pressures, and just drive. I've consistently shaved more tenths from driving adjustments and different line choices than I ever have from tinkering. Besides, without a controlled environment and a sincere data acquisition system, IMHO it's pointless.

Thanks again for sticking through the long post. I'm just trying to make new friends in the Boxster world and also pick your brains on what you have had success with.

iflyadesk

I thought of a better way to state my questions more succinctly and in bullet format...

Background
-New to racing 2002 Boxster S, but not new to racing. Have qualified pole in a $7k Spec Miata against national cars (which have $7k engines), so I can at least put down one fast lap.

-Want to build up Boxster S to win in NASA Time Trial class C

-Currently bone stock with street tires

Setup
-Current gripes:
(a) steady state understeer
(b) roll stiffness
(c) ultimate grip
(d) latent turn-in

-What I think will work
(a) bigger front tires --more negative camber (from lowering)
(b) stiffer springs or sway bars
(c) sticky tires
(d) sticky tires

-What I'm hoping you can help me with
--will my ideas work?
--what spring rates are popular?
--can I get away with not upgrading the shocks?
--have you driven the Pilot Sport Cup? --does it really work as a street/track tire?
--would you go with stiffer bars and softer springs, stiffer springs and leave the bars alone, or stiffer both to fix roll stiffness?
--what are the tricks for stuffing more tire in the front? --how big can you go?

-My goal is to modify as little as possible, not for $$ reasons, but simply because less is often better when it comes to tinkering.

-And of course, what am I completely neglecting to think of? (strut bar, blinker fluid, electric supercharger, etc.)

Thanks in advance for your advice, and I look forward to being an active member of the Boxster community.

Ray S

First welcome

Second, I will answer but I think you should also ask your questions

here: www.ppbb.com and here: http://boxcar-racing.com/forum/index...15bc&board=1.0

1) I believe your ideas will work
2) Not sure on the specific rates. I have Kinesis springs on my car (wound by Eibach to Kinesis specs) and they work well for me
3) Maybe. Right now I am using Porsche 030 shocks and bars. The 030 was a US suspension option that included upgraded springs, bars, and shocks. I am not familiar with the specific rules in the group you are with, but you may be able to use the 030 shocks without spending any points since they were a factory option.
4) I use the MPSC's as my current DE tire. I use my tires for the track only (I switch to a separate set of wheels/tires for the street). IMHO these tires would work for street and track use (I generally drive to the events on these tires). However, you will wear them out quickly with street use and you will put a lot of heat cycles on them with street use. Finally, they are not as light or grippy as Hoosiers.
5) I'd stiffen both ends and tweak understeer/oversteer with pressure and alignment. (However ask on the Boxster Racing Board).
6) I've seen guy use as wide as 265's up front for autocross. I use 235's up front and 265's in the rear and I find that combo to be perfect for me (the car is very neutral). The only place I have too much understeer is turn S1 and S2 at Autobahn CC.

Good Luck!

Sboxin

I agree with Ray, and...
We have an '02 S w/M030 with the H&R lowering springs.
This is a very good setup for track and some road trips.

The tires will be a big improvement - We ran KUMHO V710 last year and will go to MPS Cups this fall/winter for DE and Ax. The size was 245/35/18 frnt and 285/30/18 rear on BBS 993 wheels - 8" & 10". This also became too much for the power steering and now have an added return line cooler.

The springs help get more camber - 1.7 F and 2.5 R. We leave the alignment for both track and road. The toe is very important to the Boxster - we have an Indy who is great at setting just the right amount to balance the track/road.

The brakes are another item you will be looking at for more laps on the track. Our Pagid Blue are just "OK" and will be using Orange for the track and switching for the road use.

Anyway, you seem to have a good handle on what needs to be done. Good luck and hope to see you in Phoenix for some track time...or maybe Deming,NM with the Southern Arizona PCA track outing in September - check out their Web site: http://saz.pca.org/

Take care,
Ed

give me a shout if you want to come over this winter we got room for a desk jockey AF guy

iflyadesk

Your event is the weekend after Nationals, so after 8-10 days on the road, I might not be allowed out of the house

iflyadesk

I think I'm getting LEDA coilovers. It's what Mantis is running.

First986NJ

1) ROW M030 kit (springs, shocks,sways) - was an option so no points?
2) Ernie bar
3) More aggressive alignment: Fronts -1.2 deg camber, 0 toe; Rears -2 deg camber, minimal toe; tyre press 30 psi all around.
4) Set of lightweight wheels w/ track tyres.

That should do it.....