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Just Traded my SC for a Boxster

 
Old 05-24-2007, 06:31 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by davidnyc
Hi, brand new to this forum.... owner of a S2000, track prepped Integra Type R and started to look at Boxster's in place of my S2000 because they are coming down in price.... so this S2000 vs. Boxster talk is timely.... I think what people haven't mentioned are the different skills involved in driving cars with different layouts... Even though a S2000 may have similar performance as a Boxster, I am excited to think about how I will have to change my driving style to drive a Boxster safely fast. It was a leap from FWD to RWD... now RWD/mid engined must be another learning experience that would be exciting.

Has anyone here actually owned a S2000 and can compare it to a Boxster? I say "owned" because test driving a car (especially an S2000) can give a wrong impression of the car.
David has it right. Have you done the rear toe link change? It supposed to quell this "freaky" mid corner behavior I hate so much in this car. The 928 was rooted into the pavement compared to the Honda. Mine is lowered, but I never did the rear tow control links. If I was keeping it I would.
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Old 05-24-2007, 06:31 PM
  #47  
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the transition will be seamless. The S2000 engine placement rear of the front shock mounts make unlike any Front engine car I've ever been at wheel of. When I first drove an S2000 at a driving school (EVO) I set a lap tap within a second of my BoxsterS time. At higher RPM the S2000 was more of an 'experience', I guess motorcyle engines in cars tend to do that. At regular street driving RPMs its a bit dull...but the Boxster is pretty quiet by Porsche standards too.
The thing you will miss BIG TIME in giving up your S2000 is the gear box. Like a precise bolt action rifle.
The Boxster gear box in comparison is like stiring a pot of lumpy oatmeal with a slinky.ok not that point but it's Definitely the weak point of the car where it may be the strong point of the S2000. If I were Porsche I would buy gear boxes from Honda, I believe the 987 gear box is already made in Japan and its still not at the s2000 level. .

as far as maintenace you'll miss your S2000. Independent mechanics are the way to go. I got a quote of over $1500 at my local Porsche dealer for very routine 30K maintenace. The local independent charge about half that. Reliability has been excellent with my Boxster but I doubt I'll buy another Porsche without a CPO. A second hand CPO Boxster is a win win.

Last edited by perfectlap; 05-25-2007 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 05-24-2007, 06:31 PM
  #48  
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The word is robust, and I would not use it in reference to the S2000.
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Old 05-24-2007, 06:41 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by perfectlap
as far as maintenace you'll miss your S2000. Independent mechanics are the way to go. I got a quote of over $1500 at my local Porsche dealer for very routine 30K maintenace. The local independent charge about half that. Reliability has been excellent with my Boxster but I doubt I'll buy another Porsche without a CPO. A second hand CPO Boxster is a win win.
Thank you for allowing me to hijack this thread a bit.... I have little fear on performing basic to mid-level maintenance on cars... is the Porsche so difficult to work on that it almost always requires a mechanic?

As for the Honda handling.... I am a poor example of what should be done... I haven't even aligned my car (I know, I know have all the settings just haven't done it)... I just learned to deal with some of the quirkyness... I guess I have the mindset that this car is just my street car with a little back road fun... track or autocross, I use my Type R (which is properly setup).
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Old 05-24-2007, 07:07 PM
  #50  
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The Boxster gear box in comparison is like stiring a pot of lumpy oatmeal with a slinky.ok not that point but it's Definitely the weak point of the car where it may be the strong point of the S2000.
you might want to try a SSK. the throws are quite short (almost too short) and very precise (compared to my 993).
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Old 05-24-2007, 07:41 PM
  #51  
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Couple of thoughts here:

* Who the hell would buy an S2000 as a dedicated track car when that same money will buy you a D Sports Racer? I cannot think of any $30,000 race car that wouldn't be faster and more amusing than an S2K. Even a Spec Racer Ford has eight or nine seconds a lap (of Mid-Ohio) of pace beyond the S2K.

* The S2000 and RX-8 share the same transmission, and it's an Aisin part to my knowledge. Some people believe that it's overstressed in an S2K application, which means a Boxster S would rip it in two pieces. You can't have a Honda-spec transmission in a car which twists the input shaft more than half again as hard at low rpm.

* The Boxster is very easy to drive on-track up to 9.5/10ths and then you have to start planning what you are going to do with the inertia of that engine behind you. That's why Porsche puts those little-bitty 225 tires up front.
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Old 05-24-2007, 07:45 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Pzkw993
Couple of thoughts here:

* Who the hell would buy an S2000 as a dedicated track car when that same money will buy you a D Sports Racer? I cannot think of any $30,000 race car that wouldn't be faster and more amusing than an S2K. Even a Spec Racer Ford has eight or nine seconds a lap (of Mid-Ohio) of pace beyond the S2K.
I'm listening.
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Old 05-24-2007, 08:48 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by davidnyc
But, is the 986 same or worst... I am fearful of the oil leaks, RMS problems, etc (I am just learning about 986's).... I don't mind a little problem here and there, but not regular $$$$ problems.
Originally Posted by davidnyc
Thank you for allowing me to hijack this thread a bit.... I have little fear on performing basic to mid-level maintenance on cars... is the Porsche so difficult to work on that it almost always requires a mechanic?
From a technical standpoint, the Boxster is no more difficult to work on than any other modern car. However, as I'm sure you know, it's access is not as simple or convenient as popping the hood. It requires a bit more effort but is not overly complex or "scary". Not that big a deal, IMO.

That said, one advantage of the Boxster is that it is very reliable - dare I say virtually bulletproof, to this point - and you won't have a lot of need to access it. The service intervals are long (15K oil changes, although I change mine annually, and 30K major service). I just did my 30K major and it cost me $650. Considering that included my annual oil change, I don't think it was too bad (although, cost threshold is obviously up to each person to determine). Given my average annual mileage, I should be good for several years.

While RMS is something to keep an eye out for, it is important to note that it's very rarely a serious issue - it's really more of a nuissance than anything else. In most cases, it amounts to little more than a drop of oil every now and then - basically starts spotting your garage floor (although I'm always amazed at how big a spot just a drop or two can look like). Certainly not anything catastrophic - again with only a couple serious exceptions ever reported here or over at PPBB (probably can almost count on one hand with fingers to spare). The downside is that, because of the location of the leak, the fix is expensive (~$1,000 - $1,500 seems to be the average). IMO, this is the only real weak point of the car, from a mechanical perspective.

Last edited by J-RAD; 05-25-2007 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 05-24-2007, 08:53 PM
  #54  
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because of the location of the leak, the fix is expensive (~$1,000 - $1,500 seems to be the average)
you must never have owned one of the older 911s...repair costs on those start at $1k!
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Old 05-24-2007, 08:54 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by mborkow
you must never have owned one of the older 911s...repair costs on those start at $1k!
Oh, yes, I have - 1982 SC Euro. I learned to wrench on mine own for that very reason.
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Old 05-24-2007, 09:36 PM
  #56  
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I've driven plenty of S2000's and I have real mixed feelings about the car. The AP1 had an awsome motor that would spin forever, but was gutless below 6,000 and had tricky handling. They dumbed down the motor in the AP2 by boosting the displacement for more low end torque but they took 1,000 RPM's off the redline so it's easier to drive but no faster or more powerful (they also tweaked the suspension to remove some demons)?? The Vtec gave it a real Jeckyl and Hyde character as it drives like a Civic off the cam.

Throw in single piston calipers, an iron suspension, and skinny (relative to those avaialble on the 986) tires and the $10K price advantage over a 986 does not seem so great.

I'm not saying it is not a great car, it is. However, park one next to a Boxster (not even an S) and ask me to choose and I'll take the 986/987 every time (in spite of the price premium).

The final problem the car has is the King of the Fast and Furious image the car seems to have with teenagers (although the M3, STI, and EVO seem to be gaining on it in this regard). Drive one down the street and Civis with stickers seem to pop out of thin air all "reving" for a race.
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Old 05-25-2007, 10:48 AM
  #57  
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The M3 has become the "German Trans Am". The same people who would have bought a flamin' chicken '77 T/A ended up making big money in drywall and buying an E46 M3 for their kids.

HRE wheels in unfeasibly large size? Check.
All-season tires? Check.
Monster stereo? Check.
Additional aerokit? Check.
Smoked/tinted/bosered/who knows what else? Check.
Worthless engine mods? Check.
Allergic to track use? Double check.
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Old 05-25-2007, 10:57 AM
  #58  
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Lots of good stuff in posts here.
Oil leaks and engine rebuilds in the old 911s make these cars DIY cars--best left to the mechanically inclined. My conclusion after owning an 82SC for a year is oil-air cooling is marginal, especially without a frontal radiator/fan, and long-term, probably accounts for seal leak problems. Steve Wilkinson, in his book, points out the SC is primarily an oil-cooled car, with air as a supplement. You really have to have cooling air flow thru the front of the car, which Porsche evolved to beginning in the 80s. The current water-cooled cars (and the 90s oil-cooled) have extensive air-flow thru the front and sides. My Boxster stays on 180F in the first driving I've done with it.

A comment on the other roadsters mentioned here vs the Boxster. I owned a Z3, and I get the feeling of much more spaciousness in the Boxster. There is more car around me--especially in the rear. I would guess it's bigger than the Miata or the S2000. You can get a claustrophobic feeling in some of these smaller 2-seaters. I don't get that in the Boxster, though the 996 felt bigger inside to me when I test drove it--with the rear seats.

I think, also, the premium you pay for the Porsche is largely due to its racing abilities--it's built to sustain much higher speeds than street driving--and that probably helps you on the street as well. You also have to give Porsche the edge in braking (none better) and in stability with its mid-engine layout.
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Old 05-25-2007, 01:45 PM
  #59  
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you can buy a dedicated track car but who is going to work on that? Specialized labor costs money.
And you have to have a trailer for that D sports racer (and a car to pull the trailer). That's a hassle..You can't just jump into it and drive it to the track like the Honda Roadster. An S2000 is bullet proof, streetable and you can do double duty with AutoX.
What other street car for that performance is that reliable and that low maintenance? Not to mention your average mechanic can work on it. My old local mechanic of 15 years won't even touch my Boxster and he's from Europe!

As far as the Fast and the Furious image, who cares what kids think. I'll say this though.. those kids keep the demmand for the S2000 high. Seems like I rarely see even 7 year old S2000's on Fleabay for less than $12K.
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Old 05-25-2007, 05:00 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by perfectlap
you can buy a dedicated track car but who is going to work on that? Specialized labor costs money.
There's no way you could be worse mechanically than I am, and I know enough to do a lot of work on a Spec Racer Ford. If you can fix a bicycle you're halfway there.

And you have to have a trailer for that D sports racer (and a car to pull the trailer). That's a hassle..You can't just jump into it and drive it to the track like the Honda Roadster. An S2000 is bullet proof, streetable and you can do double duty with AutoX.
Good point... but I have a couple of questions for you.

* How are you going to get the tires, jack, helmets, and other stuff to the track? 'Cause very few people find tracking a car on street tires to be satisfactory after their first few years doing it. You'll need your DOT-R tires, which means you need to either pull a tire trailer or trailer the car.

* When the car has a problem, how are you going to get it home?

What other street car for that performance is that reliable and that low maintenance?
For the twenty grand that a non-ratted-out S2000 will cost you (our friend above is, I think being very fair in his pricing with his S2000 for sale) you can get any of the following:

* A non-Z06 C5 Vette, which is much faster than an S2K.
* A Dodge Neon Turbo (SRT-4) for $12K plus your choice of hop-up parts to make it faster.
* A first-facelift WRX.
* An '04 Evolution.
* A 968, which is a good match for an S2000 around many track and is already fully depreciated.
* An E36 M3 in good shape.


I'll say it again, however: If you want a race car, start with a race car. That was the advice given to me by one of the old dogs of my SCCA region a few years ago. How I chuckled! Surely it would be cooler to drive a street car on the track than it would be to drive a Formula Vee or something like that! But he was right.

For what a new S2000 costs, you could buy an $8,000 pickup, a $2,000 car hauler, and a $20,000 race car. Five years from now, when the $30,000 S2K is worth $15,000, the pickup will be worth $4K, the car hauler will be worth $2K, and the race car will be worth $18K. And the money you'll save along the way on tires, brakes, and body panels is even better.

I'm not saying street cars have no place on the track; I'm just saying that if you really want a dedicated track car, get a real race car and enjoy real race car pace. Consider that a $32,000 S2000 can get around Mid-Ohio in 1:49, a $11,000 Spec Focus can do it in 1:48, a $71,000 Z06 Vette can do it in 1:39, and a $40,000 C Sports Racer can do it in 1:26.
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