Jay Laifman

I think I am partially to blame in "hijacking" this thread - or atleast making it go sideways. But, it's been a great one. There were really two core issues I was considering: (1) even though I think I'm more efficient and faster in my manual stick, have AT's and/or the sequential manuals with computers keeping them in the optimum range become so good, that one really has to be above average in manual shifting ability to be better than the ATs or SMs? and (2) are most sports car drivers with egos not as good at manual shifting as they think they are?

After all the great exchanges above, I feel there is a line somewhere where some drivers would be better with ATs or SMs. The question then is how high is that line? I don't think any of us can answer that here. But, I'm guessing it's higher than most think.

Jay

Jay Laifman

I should add that I will always have sticks because they are more fun and rewarding. For the longest time, I've also always been able to justify that because I know that a properly driving stick will out perform the AT. I guess the issue is just when does that justification no longer hold true and when do I become a relic for sticking with my antiquated manual?

m21sniper

"(2) are most sports car drivers with egos not as good at manual shifting as they think they are?"

IMO that's definitely the case.

I think i already answered (1) to the best of my ability.

Alan Herod

I will give another perspective -- I have driven both on the track and I find the button logic on the Boxster confounding. The debounce logic prevents the buttons from responding to multiple presses. But, if you leave the shifter in Auto and left foot brake and stab the gas, the Tiptronic S will select its most aggressive and rapid shifting mode. It will then hold the gear until red line or your level of aggression backs off. Manual mode will allow you to inadvertenly shift the gears while you are turning the wheel and you could find yourself up a gear and down on torque. Personally I prefer to drive the manual transmission car, I think it is more fun. But this might lead one to believe that the fast way to drive the tip is with the buttons. This is not the case, but the technique that you must employ to drive the tip fast on the track requires something we normally don't do very well, primarily thresholding braking with the left foot.

For what it is worth, I have attempted to cultivate part of the instructor corp to be able to drive the Tip in a performance mode like it was designed.

Boxsterund914

Interesting thread. Here's my two cents worth, and trust me...that's all it's worth! Automatics are the future, no doubt about it, look at Formula 1. Is it there yet for a daily driver? Not for me. I enjoy driving. I enjoy the involvement, the "feel" and using both feet and both hands is part of it for me. I don't always get it right, none of us do, but when I do.....man o man, it just feels....good!

I don't understand the thought process of the designers of systems such as the Tip. It seems like they are in total "nanny" mode. If I want to tear up my six speed box I can cram it into the wrong gear whenever I want. I choose not to...but I could. I have control of it. I like that. Hey! I bought it, it's mine, let me do what I want with it. Oh but not so with the Tip! The geeks have control and they decide whether you are, in fact doing something they would approve of if they were in the car with you, looking over your shoulder! Don't you think that's kind of strange? Aren't you glad everything in your life is not "nanny-ized" by electrical engineers? Aren't you glad we have manual sneakers? dinnerware? beer bottles? zippers!? condoms!!?

I'll keep the six manual gears in my manual box. I'll stick 'em where I want when I want. I may not be faster than everyone all the time, but I'm faster than most people most of the time....and that's good enough for me.

m21sniper

The key is to get the right geek to tell your tip how to act.

Such geeks can be found at hi performance tranny shops the world over.

pweishaupt

This is a long shot on a very old post, but do you happen to remember where you saw the article? I tried googling it but got zip.

thanks.

mikefocke

Excellence

pweishaupt

Oh well, still can't find it.. I only started getting it in 2006, so won't be in my back issues..

Byprodriver

This is correct, the DME reduces power in preperation for the gear change to reduce driveline shock. Also a tip has about 4% more drag on torque to the wheels. Can't believe I wasted so much time reading the biased hijackers rant before I saw the date.