RennHarry

Hello there, rennlisters.
Total Noobie here. I just want to say thanks to all the incredible members and the knowledge that is so freely dispensed here.
I find myself at a point in life where I'd like a fun car. Kids are in college (or out), wife and I can slow down and have some fun hobbies, etc. Being a practical guy, I have always owned practical cars; Honda Pilots, Odysseys (wife's cars) Explorers, etc. The closest thing to sporty was my 1989 Acura Integra. The closest thing to Porsche was my wife's 2002 Passat wagon (fun little rocket but the single most unreliable car I have ever owned, holy smokes)
I wrench a little bit; spark plugs, brakes, fluid flushes, etc. and might like to improve my skills and learn more. We have some garage space.
I have spent much of my COVID spare time boning up on this site. I particularly enjoy the 928 group, and would REALLY love to own one but am not sure I'm in for that level of dedication.
The Boxster seems like a great entry point but I would love to hear others' opinions regarding the wisdom of the 986 versus newer models. I know I can buy a 986 at a reasonable price; I know that I can do a PPI, and look for bore scoring etc.; I can look and see if the IMS was done. And that's all well and good but if the engine then suffers a failure, it's $20K+ to fix a $9K car. For what it's worth, a fun weekend car that costs $9K and blows up a year after I buy it would not be a satisfying experience, but no biggie from a financial standpoint. I could rinse and repeat a few times for what a more "modern" Boxster costs...
It seems to me that the real killjoy is the M96.
Knowing that it's quite a bit more money, am I better off ponying up and getting a newer Boxster with the next gen engine?
Cheers

Byprodriver

From 2000-2003 my job was test driving new cars. I owned a 1971 Firebird with 455 c.i. engine that i loved ! After test driving all the Porsches I realized they were funner to drive than anything else. 996 was faster but the Boxster 'S' is funner to drive. When a management change reduced the enjoyment of my job I quit & started looking for my own Boxster 'S' that I have owned for 17 years now.

ahutcheon

My view is that I can walk away from a $20k+ failure on a $9k car, but a $20k+ failure on an expensive car would be a problem. Oh, and I live on a gravel road, so I have to accept some cosmetic deterioration. More than two years in to running a 986 for a little over Mazda MX5 money, I've had my money's worth and I still have a Porsche that's running fine. A two decade old car can die in all manner of ways, I don't get too hung up over a couple of things that are endemic to the M96 motor. If you want similar fun with less risk, I'd put in a good word for the Mazda. Mine had pop-up headlights, which were extra cool.

Just to be clear: I mean no disrespect to anyone or anything. Mazda make an excellent roadster, and it suits many of us. I'm almost glad of the IMS paranoia, because it makes a 986 cheap enough that I can justify it as a toy. The lovely V has always wanted a Porsche, so for us it's worth the risk.

RennHarry

Thanks for the replies, guys.
ahutcheon, that's kind of my thought too. I'm not a collector, the car would not be a daily driver, and I don't want to feel angst over every little stone chip. Not that the car would be disposable, per se. But it would be a form of entertainment. Which makes me circle back to a decent 986.
I think Miatas are terrific too. My buddy had one and it was pretty spirited driving.
Cheers

ZuffenZeus

Harry, I see many 986 Boxster for sale on Facebook Marketplace and local Craigslist for under $10K these days. They seem very attractive to guys that have never owned a Porsche and don't have the money to purchase a newer Porsche with a warranty. They purchase them and quickly realize they are spending more time at the bank withdrawing money for repair costs than driving the cars.

Not trying to scare you away, but you must understand the value is always in the engine. Of course, keeping the convertible top mechanism working properly can be costly, but the M96 engine can be a virtual money pit if you chose the wrong one. Therefore, do your homework and try to find one that was well maintained with documentation to back it up. Also, it's always a good idea to have a PPI, but that doesn't always guarantee you won't experience serious engine failure with one of these engines. On both of my Porsche 996 Carreras, I easily put $5,000 into them within the first year. Replacing the clutch, flywheel, IMS, RMS, and AOS will cost you north of $5,000 alone.

RennHarry

Thanks for the input, b3freak. I'm definitely a "proceed with caution" type of guy. And I guess that's the gist of my question. Am I better off looking for a newer car with 9A1 versus M96? Higher upfront cost but potentially less likely to suffer engine failure?
As ahutcheon points out, if you buy the cheaper car, you might tend to enjoy more without worrying about cosmetics etc.
But yes, I would be extra diligent, inspecting and seeking documentation, all teh rest.
Much to consider. In the meantime I will enjoy this excellent site!
Cheers

Dion_Dunn

Interesting question RennHarry. I’m in the market myself and am looking across all 3 generations of 986, 987.1 and 987.2 because I like aspects of all 3 models. My list of 986’s is focused on S models with less than 50k miles and the necessary work done. Guess what, those cars are creeping up on $20k now. Also, the 2005/2006 987.1 S models under 75k miles can also be had for low $20k’s, and I’m finally starting to see base model 987.2’s dropping into the mid to low $20k’s. I’m steering clear of 3.4 models to avoid potential bore scoring issues because this will be a daily driver for me. IMS can be dealt with, bore scoring is a little tougher. The beauty of buying these cars now is all of the major failure points are already known.

the potential failure cost doesn’t bother me that much. This will be my 6th Porsche. All of them had some kind of catastrophic failure, but none of them ever did.

ZuffenZeus

The 9A1 configuration seems like it's turning out to be great engines, but that doesn't mean you can't find a reliable M9X based Porsche that will be a better financial fit for you.

I'll cut to the chase...

IMHO, find a base Boxster with the 2.7L engine from 2006 - 2008. Those engines used a cast piston composition and the large single row 6305 bearing. That is, they don't suffer from cylinder bore scoring and the M97 6305 bearing can handle the load with very few reports of failure. Those bearings are more durable and robust than the original Dual Row bearing in the 986.

Most people like to get the more powerful "S" engines, but in reality, the 2.7L has repeatedly won many awards over the years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%27s_10_Best_Engines

RennHarry

b3freak,
Thanks for the advice. The base models from that era seem to be very reasonably priced. I would of course do my "due diligence" regardless.
Thanks for the link as well. The small differences in those engines can make a great deal of difference in terms of failure rate. Good reading.
Cheers

elgy

I have a spare engine in my garage that I have prepared to go into my 2000 2.7 5-speed to permit me to keep the car on the road while I do cam chain tensioners and a few other things on the original engine. It has cost me about $3000 CDN (about $2500 US) to buy the engine, ship it and do some maintenance. There are lots of used engines around. I inspected the IMSB on this engine and on the engine in another 2000 base that I owned briefly, both where in good shape and were left in place. So buy an early 986 and drive it like you stole it... the price I paid for mine was almost like stealing it.

mikefocke

https://sites.google.com/site/mikefo...eardifferences

losblancos

OP I was at a similar dilemma a few months back. Wanted a cheap-ish Boxster to toy around with but was worrying about engine blowups. Didn’t want to spend too much on a car that wasn’t going to get year-round consistent use (I live close to work and we have a kid on the way).

I initially wanted a 986 but then started focusing on 06-08 987 base for basically the reasons given by @b3freak plus the fact that wife and I are both tall and appreciated the additional room in the cabin. I decided I didn’t need an S (and 987 base performance is not far off of the 986S anyways).

986 vs 987 (all IMO):

—987 maybe “better looking”, but 986 quirkier, more unique, and less “generic” Porsche
—987 roomier interior
—987 faster
—986 interior looks dated but has way more character, 987 almost looks like it could be a random VW inside
—Driving experience felt very similar to me, ‘97 986 I drove felt the most “raw” but otherwise couldn’t tell much of a difference between the two gens
—BIG advantage for 986 is that it’s just WAY easier to find information and DIY support

I wound up w a cheap neglected dirty 987.1 “project” that needs love and a flywheel etc but seems otherwise mechanically solid. Early days but so far I adore the thing.

I actually think there are a number of good options out there, even though the market is a bit overheated right now in general.
These are the 986s that I typically found appealing when appropriately priced:
—97-99 (lower cost and low IMS risk but I’d be wary of very low mileage cars)
—2000 base or S (often but not always had dual row IMS)
—2001-2004 base or S with high miles or in need of a clutch (and discounted accordingly)

Really, the only scenarios I categorically avoided:
—Overpaying for a lower mileage ‘01-05 that hasn’t had its IMS taken care of (just doesn’t make economic sense IMO)
—3.4l 987s (I just don’t have the risk tolerance for bore scoring)

There’s always a chance something will go bad. These cars are definitely a risk. But I think it’s a bit overstated, and if you’re careful and discerning you can find a decent deal for a fun reasonably reliable car. They seem pretty well built, they’re not very complex mechanically, and the chassis and noise are awesome. They’re done depreciating. I decided to roll the dice.

If you want to spend the extra cash, to me the 987.2 is the best Boxster ever made and still a decent value for what you get.

RennHarry

losblancos,
Thanks for the very detailed and thoughtful post. I have noticed that DIY info is much more easy to find for the 986.
The little nugget from b3freak about the 06-08 being a better bet re IMS and BS is really great. Good to hear you confirm.
I do kind of like the 987 look a bit more than the 986, but really, it's the top-down, mid-engine, 5- or 6-speed experience I'm looking for. Beyond that I could be thrilled with a wide variety of what I have seen in Boxsters, 986 or other.
987.2 would be a possibility but the pricing I see out there varies widely, and without having drilled down yet to see individual cars, I assume right now the "cheap" 987.2s that I see have issues
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
Cheers

ZuffenZeus

Don't take my word for it. Just listen to the people that have spent their lives repairing M9X engines like Jake Raby of Flat 6 Innovations. He has mentioned many times that the 2.7L engine in the 987 Boxster/Cayman is the one to buy if you want to avoid cylinder bore scoring and IMS bearing failure. Those are solid engines IMHO. They may not have the fancy "S" on the rear decklid and lack a few HP at the wheels, but you're getting an award-winning engine that will last you many years.

Also, the base 986 with cast pistons is also a good car that avoids the bore scoring problem, but those cars are well over 20 years old and you'll have a lot to deal with because of age and wear. You want to avoid the years of the single row 6204 bearing primarily between 2002 and 2005 (2000-01 could have either). The original dual row IMS bearing on the pre-02 was very robust, but there have been more and more reports of failure even with that bearing and so keep that in mind if you go with an early Boxster. I have yet to see any failures mentioned on RL with the most robust bearing - the 6305 in the 987.1.

I still hold to my advice on 2006-08 987.1 2.7L Boxster/Cayman. Those are the ones to snag if you find a deal IMHO.

RennHarry

Thanks, b3freak. 06-08 cars seem very reasonable right now.
Cheers