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Boxster - Haters and Doubters - don't read

 
Old 03-15-2004, 06:37 PM
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Default Boxster - Haters and Doubters - don't read

Stuttgart. The Porsche roadster models Boxster and Boxster S have been named best sports cars by "Automobile Magazine" in the United States. In its All-Star Awards for 2004, "Automobile Magazine" - a monthly publication with a circulation of 500,000 copies - awarded the title of "Best Sports Car" to the roadster from Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. The awards were announced at the Detroit Motor Show.

Despite stiff competition, the Boxster received more than 50 per cent of the votes cast by employees of the magazine worldwide. This is the third time that the Boxster has received a prestigious All-Star Award from "Automobile Magazine".

The Detroit Motor Show is currently hosting the world première of the special edition Boxster S entitled "50 Years of 550 Spyder". With output increased by a further six bhp to 266 bhp, this limited edition anniversary model - with just 1,953 units produced - is the most powerful Boxster in Porsche’s history.

Since being launched in the autumn of 1996, more than 150,000 units of the Boxster have been sold worldwide. The roadster has far exceeded the company’s original expectations.

This is re-posted from Babblers Board.


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Old 03-16-2004, 03:20 PM
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Old 03-16-2004, 03:39 PM
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But then, I already knew that...
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Old 03-16-2004, 05:08 PM
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:07 PM
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Great car, no doubt. Lots of fun on the backroads...

Don't take it to the track though - Mine fell apart after 3 events. But we won't go there on this thread : )
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:22 PM
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Yeah the Boxster only has three problems, the way I see it...

One, Porsche decided to change their entire philosophy so they could build their 986/996s for huge profit and with low quality (by Porsche standards - slam the door on a 993 and then do the same on a boxster/996, you'll see what I mean)

Two, they are so grossly underpowered that they're not worth the money. (I know Porsches aren't about the "numbers" and "horsepower," but when you have a Honda Accord V6 blowing your doors off in your brand new Porsche, there's something seriously wrong)

Three, I can open my sunroof at 60mph on the highway, flick a penny out the top and 9 times out of 10 I'll hit a Boxster. I guess that means it's a sales smash hit - but when your kid's 1st grade teacher drives one, along with your neighbor's daughter and that gay hairdresser at Fantastic Sams, it kind of loses a bit of that old mystique.

A fun car though, no doubt - but the best roadster out there today? I'd say that would be the M3 for the same price.

Just my humble (and correct) opinion.

Last edited by Daytona24; 03-18-2004 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 03-17-2004, 01:59 AM
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I've driven 993's, SC's, and just drove a 964 today, and the current generation of Porsches is better. Period. I don't find the doors to feel more solid on the older ones than on my 996. The interior of mine is larger and more luxurious than the 993, and yet the 996 weighs less (and has more power). The standard boxster is lacking in muscle, but the mid-engine design is inherently superiior to every 911 - including mine, and the rear trunk is an incredibly useful convenience. And BMW's aren't exactly rare, either (though they are fantastic cars), nor are M3's "roadsters." (But the 2002 M roadster - with over 300hp - is phenomenal.)
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Old 03-17-2004, 03:00 AM
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First, Mid engine design superior? Perhaps if you don't know how to drive! There's a reasons that Boxsters aren't raced.

Secondly, you should definitely look into what you are buying and read up on your $80k car. The leather is cheap. CHEAP is the only word to describe it. My boxster S (Yes, same material as your 996) was very worn at 30k miles. You can simply feel it. My 911 SC had 220k miles on it, and the driver's seat looked better.

Third, I'd bet my title that my "old" 85' Carrera gets better lap times than your 996 Cab. It BLEW my 986S away on the track by a long shot (the best handling design of a car in your opinion w/260bhp)The fact that the "new" Porsche's suspension is as soft as a MB (both 996 and 986) doesn't help I'm sure. This is probably where your "comfortable" ride is coming from. The really sad part is that an $80k (Porsche) sports car gets its doors blown in by its $45k American competition (I never thought I'd be saying that, and yes, it is embarassing to me!)

If you head over to the "racing" board, you'll see people refer to the "911 factor", meaning that if you know how to drive the car to the limit, there isn't much that can touch it. Today that is far and few inbetween. Those of you attending PCA's DE's know what I mean. The 911 factor is why a history of almost 40 years shows underpowered 911's beating their components.

It's just a shame that Porsche's new management has decided that sales and profit are more important than the true enthusiast and pure performance. Here's the worst part: You have to pay $30k MORE for a stripped out GT3! Damn, I remember the RS America cost quite a bit less than a standard 911 at the time (1993). But again, the GT3 is really the only "race ready" 911 today and the only one I'd trust at the track.

BTW - Your 996 Cab (probably $80k range) doesn't have dry sump lubrication, and has a voided warranty if you decide to track it. Now I see why many of the hardcore guys moved on to Ferrari - spend several days at the track to have a bad main seal, broken suspension parts and a bill that noone wants to see after spending $80k!

I REALLY hate facing this because I truly LOVE Porsche. I just hope things turn around in time.
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Old 03-17-2004, 03:48 AM
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Yea, I drug my sorry-*** piece-of-**** early-production 996 around Ca Speedway the weekend before last. Again. Amazing it made it, and then home. Amazing too, that more cars (including those designed solely for racing) don't hang their engines out behind the rear wheels. I wonder why not? From a design standpoint, it's obviously best. Right? Am I using the row M030 suspension? Yes. Do I like a cold AC? Yes. Do I enjoy the optional natural leather & wood interior? The top that folds away cleanly? Yes & yes. It's prettier than most Jags I've been in. Runs like hell and looks beautiful, and I like both. Will it accelerate with an M Roadster? NFW. One was pulling away from me with ease on the portion of the banking we used last weekend.

BTW, I don't think I flamed anyone's car or choice(s). But the fastest car I had ever driven back in 1981 (an SC, and still a favorite of mine) is not cutting edge in 2004. Period.
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Old 03-17-2004, 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by Daytona24
Yeah the Boxster only has three problems, the way I see it...

One, Porsche decided to change their entire philosophy so they could build their 986/996s for huge profit and with low quality (by Porsche standards - slam the door on a 993 and then do the same on a boxster/996, you'll see what I mean)

Two, they are so grossly underpowered that they're not worth the money. (I know Porsches aren't about the "numbers" and "horsepower," but when you have a Honda Accord V6 blowing your doors off in your brand new Porsche, there's something seriously wrong)

Three, I can open my sunroof at 60mph on the highway, flick a penny out the top and 9 times out of 10 I'll hit a Boxster. I guess that means it's a sales smash hit - but when your kid's 1st grade teacher drives one, along with your neighbor's daughter and that gay hairdresser at Fantastic Sams, it kind of loses a bit of that old mystique.

A fun car though, no doubt - but the best roadster out there today? I'd say that would be the M3 for the same price.

Just my humble (and correct) opinion.

Greg Manders
Greg, Ive just swapped a 964 for a 2.5 Boxster and where I agree with you on some points mainly build quality the older cars are better built.As for boxsters being underpowered CRAP my car will do 0-60 in the same time as a 964 tiptronic and almost match the top speed.A Boxster S is more than a match for a 964,993,996 you really need to study the facts closer. The Boxster was designed on the 550 spyder which was around long before any 911, a mid engine design that in fact handles better than any 911.I am not knocking 911's I love them but because the Boxster is a different car to the 911 it doesent mean its not a great Porsche.The cars built in the true spirit of Porsche,Popular yes only because its a great car!
Paul
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Old 03-17-2004, 10:18 AM
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Paul-

Again, the 3.6 in a Boxster and a 996, the 996 gets better track times. It's a better handling car for someone who can't push both cars to their limits. If you mean "better handling" by ease of use, then you are correct because my 986S was the easiest car I've ever driven (fast).

Also, your 2.5 tiptronic wouldn't touch a 964 tiptronic. In fact, the 2.5 is probably the slowest Porsche I've driven next to a NA 944. Recheck your facts.

Popular? Yes, because of Porsche's mystique which is quickly losing credibility. Also, give me 10 similarities between the 550 and the boxster. Besides the fact that it is mid engine roadster, there isn't much more one could say about it.
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Old 03-17-2004, 10:30 AM
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Dakar 34 -

I'm sure you enjoyed your car on the track. But beware, if you push it hard enough the engine won't get enough oil, and YOU (not Porsche) will pick up the bill. It's happened to 2 people here in the SER with 996's, several (including myself) with Boxsters. Hence, why Porsche DOES NOT cover this under warranty.

Great cars, but aren't the true sports cars Porsche used to make (by sports cars I mean a car that is made to participate in track events, like Ferrari).
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Old 03-17-2004, 11:51 AM
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Hey Dakar, \

Haha, if the Boxster layout is so much "better" than the 911 layout, then why don't they race the... BOXSTER instead of the 911? And don't give me that "so they can sell more 911s" crap - Porsche has faced stiff competition throughout the years, and any advantage they saw, they would use.

Could it be that you simply don't have the skill to drive a 911 properly, and they Boxster is faster for you because it's so damn easy to drive? Look, I've driven a few Boxsters, including a Boxster S at Sebring - it's a fun car no doubt, but I'm much faster in the turns in my 911 - Agentpennypacker hit the nail on the head when he said "The 911 Factor" - it does exist, and if you have the skill to drive the 911 properly, you would know what I mean.

And by the way, the 2.5 Boxster is pitifully low on power - honestly, there are minivans I think accelerate faster, that is unacceptable for a $40k+ car these days. Yes the 2.7 has a bit more grunt, but is still pathetic for what you're paying. Does anyone have a problem with the fact that a 2.7 Boxster would have its *** handed to it on the track by a totally stock C5 Vette? They're the SAME PRICE PEOPLE - obviously the 986 is far more refined, but the performance differential is too much to ignore.

Oh and as far as quality is concerned, Dakar, you are delusional. Anyone else who thinks the Boxster/996 quality is on par with the old Porsches, you're also a plain idiot. Are you freaking serious Dakar? Hahaha, close your eyes and close the 986 door, you can't tell if you're dealing with a Hyandai or a Boxster. When you feel the solidity of the 993, there is no doubt what you're dealing with - a real 911. And the interior quality, don't even start - Agentpennypacker says his Boxster S interior was ratted out and the leather was worn after 30k miles!!!! And the leather does feel very thin and cheap, stop kidding yourself Dakar, you paid top dollar for nothing more than average quality. The old Porsches were built to last - the new generation are disposable, just like a Honda or any other modern econo-car. And it's a real shame.

Last edited by Daytona24; 03-18-2004 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 03-17-2004, 12:01 PM
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Daytona 24 - You make a good point. It is average quality, not poor quality. I just expect more from a Porsche, especially for the price. These aren't grand touring cars - or are they? Also, the fact that my Boxster S (and a friend of mine's, Andy Treakner) both mechanically failed. Andy actually traded up for a 996, where they STILL (from 6 months ago) get the squeak out of the dash. This was not the case back in the day.

Porsche: There is no Substitute or

Porsche: Average quality Touring Cars
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Old 03-17-2004, 12:26 PM
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Agentpennypacker,

Boy you hit the nail on the head again - average quality touring cars.

And I love how Porsche talks about how great their new "integrated dry sump" is in the 986/996 engines - but of course they have to use an entirely DIFFERENT engine for racing in the GT3 (which is a TRUE dry sump engine based off the old GT-1 '99 block), because the half-assed street engines can't take it. Way to go Porsche.

Oh, and if any of you are wondering about your warranties if you track your car, don't let them know it's ever been on the track if you have a problem - it VOIDS the factory warranty... that's right, it is VOID if you've been on the track with the car. Want an example? Here you go...

There have been three cases in the U.S. (two 996 TTs and one GT2) with the great new "PCCB" (The $15k-plus Ceramic Brakes), where the brakes have failed completely (i.e. cracked/crumbling rotors, uneven wear and shuddering under hard braking). And guess what? After shelling out over $15k for the top of the line brakes alone, Porsche has refused to honor the warranty because "the car was subjected to track use."

Does this make anyone else sick? Thanks to Japanese management philosophies adopted back in 1997, Porsche not only manufactures their cars to a lower standard, but now they leave you out to dry if you have problems with your car because of track use. Yeah, that Porsche mystique is as strong as ever, huh guys?

Reality check for all of you out in la-la land - Porsche is not what it used to be. The quality is dropping, the support is going downhill, the factory has abandoned top-level racing, and we're building SUVs. Mark my words, 10 years from now Porsche will be about as special as a Toyota. They're resting on their racing laurels, and it's pathetic to watch.

Furthermore, for anyone who says "they had to increase their profits to stay independant" I say this - I would rather have them owned by, say, Daimler (like Ferrari is owned by Fiat), and have them still building quality sportscars, than have them independant like they are now, and building average touring cars and SUVs.

Last edited by Daytona24; 03-18-2004 at 11:44 AM.
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