joseph mitro

I've test ridden a couple of first gen Boxsters and going to get one because they are such a good deal, but the ride over rough roads seems pretty bad. I'm just wondering if that was my experience with cars that had old suspension parts, or is it inherent in an open-top convertible car to judder over rough roads?

Mike Murphy

Macster

No experience with the 1st generation Boxster but my 2002 did not seem that much affected by rough roads. Of course I kept to paved roads: freeways, highways, state and county roads.

There are rough roads and then there are rough roads: Once in my Turbo I ventured off on a paved road that was paved about the time Moses was a baby. This west of Albuquerque to get around a horrendous back up on I-40 freeway. The road turned onto basically a gravel road that was severely wash boarded. I had to slow the car down to -- it seemed -- barely a walking pace or the car would dance upon the wash board surface and begin to rotate. I would have welcomed just plain judder.

With my Boxster -- with 17" wheels/tires -- I found its ride to be quite good. The car was rather softly sprung -- normal for a convertible/roadster -- and as a result a bit posher ride compared to my 996 Turbo which was on 18" wheels/tires but being a coupe having stiffer springs.

The Boxsters could have had worn shocks, maybe ROW suspension. (I asked my techs about the ROW suspension thinking of having it installed to replace the suspected worn suspension in my Boxster but both techs were quite adamant that while ROW was great for the track on the street the ride would be unacceptably harsh.)

Another ride killing mod is bigger wheels. Frankly i was glad I had the luck to pick up a Boxster with 17" wheels/tires. I could have been perfectly happy with the 16" wheels/tires too. Concurrent with my Boxster I owned a 2002 VW Golf TDi fitted with 15" wheels/tires. The car road like a magic carpet compared to my Boxster. Yet the Golf had a good suspension and good handling. The much nicer ride was primarily the tires.

By your sig in your post I see you have owned a number of Porsches and BMWs. I would thus expect you would have a good feel the range of ride behavior from these previously owned cars. If the Boxster's ride doesn't compare favorably then perhaps the Boxster, well, at least one of the ones you experienced, is not for you. Try a 2000-2002 example to see if the suspension in the newer cars is any better in this regard.

joseph mitro

I drove three with 18" wheels and one with 17" wheels. all seemed to judder but admittedly the test rides were only 10-15 minutes.
it is very possible the struts/shocks were all worn as the mileage ranges were 70-150K with no history of any suspension maintenance

bcrdukes

Given the age of the vehicles, I would say yes, it's normal to experience judder on harsh roads. You'll feel some even on paved roads, but also consider that tires make a big difference as well.

I recently swapped out the original shocks for Koni Special Active (aka FSD) shocks and they are amazing, even rolling on Dunlop Direzza DZ102 tires.

Macster

Could be worn shocks. Fortunately I have no experience with worn shocks. In 317K miles on my Boxster (and up to 150K miles on a number of other cars as well) I never replaced any shocks, or any suspension hardware except the front sway bar links on the Boxster one of which suffered a failed rubber dust boot so I had the tech replace both.

More than once when I'd have the car in I'd ask the techs about the shocks. They said the car felt fine and as long as there was no leak no need to do anything. The car was rather softly sprung -- which is typical for a convertible/roadster -- and the car is rather light too so the shocks don't work very hard.

The car held its alignment and tire wear showed no signs of shock problems.

Or possibly under some circumstances -- if a car sits a good while between uses -- the tires can develop a bit of a flat spot and it is possible part of what you felt was from that condition, at least for a while.

What about tire pressure? My Boxster was sensitive to tire pressures. Just a few too many PSI in the front tires caused a vibration very much like tire imbalance but as I was experimenting with tire pressures I dropped the tire pressures down to IIRC 29psi cold and the vibration was gone.

As tires wear they can go out of balance. So there's that.

Or the shocks could be worn. A 10 or 15 minute test drive is not that long. My usual recommendation is a 15 minute test ride followed by a 15 minute test drive over the same route the route chosen that gives the driver a chance to drive the car in a variety of scenarios. You get to experience the car in real world situations. This test ride followed by a test drive will have any flat spotting gone and the tires warmed up. You can experience the car on a variety of roads and at different speeds. If the shocks are indeed worn I think you'd know it by the end of the test ride/drive. If the car porpoises after encountered a road dip or you hear a tire beating a rhythm slapping the pavement -- cause the shock no longer can dampen the spring's action -- those are good signs the shocks, or at least one, is worn. And after the drive you get to look at the shocks for any leak sign.

You can of course budget for new shocks and adjust your offer accordingly. If the seller doesn't agree with your assessment though he's going to reject your offer.

joseph mitro

thanks for the responses. my test rides were simply too short to get a good feel for the cars, and it's a bit hard to focus on the car when the owner or salesman is sitting next to me.
it's also possible I was just overly sensitive to any sensation in the car and my mind exaggerated it all. having never owned an open-top car it will be a new experience; but the Boxster must be good enough to justify it's own Spec Boxster race series

Kitc2246

2009 Boxster PDK with Sport, Sport Plus. Tire pressure has a huge effect on my car. I've come off the track and driven on the roads around Summit Point before the tires have completely cooled off.. Four or five pounds above the street cold pressure makes the ride pretty rough.

joseph mitro

so I got a 99 base Boxster and happy to say that I haven't noticed much suspension shuddering, even with 118k miles on the original suspension.

I then installed H&R sport springs and new Bilstein B8s, and proceeded to replace every suspension component including all control arms, sway bar bushings and links, and upper strut mounts. the car feels tight and responsive, sporty yet not harsh. I haven't noticed any sort of judder even on rough roads. I love it.

given some of your other recommendations about preventive maintenance and what to look for in a used car purchase, I'm very surprised to see you say you never replaced any shocks. I'd be willing to bet you had failed shocks and never knew it. One of my OEM rear shocks - the piston would just fall into the shock body due to gravity once detached from the strut mount, even though outwardly there was no sign of failure.
A failed rubber dust boot is the least of your worries

Macster

The Porsche techs had ample opportunity to advise me the car needed new shocks, maybe even new suspension bushings and never did. I'm sure had any been bad they would have pointed this out to me. They were not shy about pointing out tire wear, brake wear, a leaking RMS (Turbo), CV boots with splits, leaking spoiler hydraulics (Turbo again) or other things they found during their inspection of the Boxster (or my Turbo).

At one time I was considering just on general principles replacing the Boxster shocks/springs and other hardware with the ROW setup and the techs not only talked me out of this but also didn't suggest going with a refresh of the car's suspension either using factory parts or aftermarket. And they did install aftermarket suspension for other customers so it was not because they didn't know how or the dealer discouraged that sort of thing. (At one time I thought about fitting my Turbo with coil over adjustable suspension and the techs told me the amount of labor required -- not that much actually -- per corner but the Turbo never needed any suspension work in 161K miles.)

With the Boxster none of the corners manifested any signs of any shock failure. There was no leakage, which quite often is the first sign of a shock problem. A "bounce" test found the car to quickly to stop bouncing which is a good sign the shocks are working to spec. The techs test drove the car a number of times and at any time could have told me one or more shocks were bad and I would have had them replaced, probably had the entire suspension gone through.

Tire life and wear patterns never indicated any shock issues. I paid a great deal of attention to the condition of the tires. (Dear old Dad managed a Goodyear tire store when I was a kid and I spent plenty of hours in the service bays looking over tires of all kinds, and spent time in the recapping "plant" in the back of the store where used tires were ground down and wrapped with new tread rubber then "cooked" in steam heated molds.)

Often a tire will "cup" from a bad shock: The tire bounces up and down as the car goes down the road - once in a while I spot this behavior from a car I see on the road -- and over time this causes the tire to manifest this odd wear pattern. Another symptom of bad shocks is the car porpoises as one drives down the road. The car encounters a mild dip and afterwards the car goes up and down, like, well like a porpoise swimming. Once in a while I spot this behavior from a car on the road. To me the behavior is quite obvious. A car manifesting this behavior stands out like a sore thumb at a hitchhiking convention.

The techs told me the Porsche shocks were pretty good. Sure once in a (great) while a car would come in with a bad shock -- usually leaking -- but over all Porsche shocks were long lived. And they told me this about the radiator hoses - which when I had the car in for a water pump at 172K miles told the tech to just replace the hoses "while he was there" and he talked me out of replacing the hoses by telling me hoses generally last a long time and which they did: The original ones were still on the car and going strong even after 16 years, 317K miles. (Periodic coolant changes, which I had done about every 4 years or so, helps prolong hose life.) And earlier when a wheel bearing was acting up but the shop manager was not sure which bearing was the noisy one and I told him to just replace both (it was one of the rear wheels) and he talked me out of it saying the wheel bearings are quite robust and long lived -- the bad one was an oddity -- and that proved to be the case. The 3 original ones and the "new" one were fine at 317K miles.The "new" one covering nearly 3 times the number of miles the bad one covered.

Oh, one more: When the car was in for new CV boots, at around 260K miles, I told the tech to just replace the half shafts with new ones thinking the bearings were near the end. But the tech talked me out of this. He said half shafts, their bearings, were long lived as long as the boots were addressed before the bearings got contaminated with dirt. He would disassemble the shafts and clean and inspect the bearings. If they were found to be bad then new shafts would be ordered. But he told me if the bearings looked good -- which they did and he also mentioned he found no signs of any dirt in the bearing grease -- a repack of grease and new boots and the shafts would be good for another (IIRC) 260K+ miles. As it turned out I did not keep the car another 260K miles, but after around another 50K+ miles the shaft bearings were still good.

The above doesn't mean everyone will get the same long life out of shocks, etc., but it also means not every shock or whatever needs replacing at some fixed or arbitrary interval. I'm good about noting any issues and having them addressed, generally erring on the side of caution based on my experience over the years: Hence for example to replace the radiator hoses when replacing the water pump; and if I had any inkling a shock was past its prime not up to the job I would have had all 4 replaced in a heart beat.

joseph mitro

well I guess you can be sure your techs aren't trying to squeeze more money from your pockets
I personally wouldn't expect OEM shocks to last over 100k miles but to each their own.
the ride and handling of my car feels sublime now; I just wish I had some canyon roads in OK!

Macster

While there may be no canyon roads in OK head to the eastern end of OK. There are some curvy roads there. Or venture on into Arkansas. The northeast corner/northern part of Arkansas has some nice roads.

dr914

if you just hear rattling could be the strut arm bushings, this is a typical problem