AutoX seems inefficient
07-16-2017, 10:37 PM
#33
Track Day
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Though a Chesapeake member, I also race with the Potomac chapter (I was at the race you mentioned) and think Jim Musgrave and the rest of the gang do a great job within the constraints with which they have to work. Everything said here about the intensity of AX is absolutely true, but I'll add that if you're not shaking from adrenaline when you've finished your run, you're not pushing hard enough. 
This was mentioned in passing, but maybe not emphasized: A PCA AX event isn't just a race, it's also a social event. Yes, it takes time to get to know the folks involved who compete on a regular basis, but I certainly have found it worth making the effort. I've met an awful lot of nice people and I always look forward to seeing them at upcoming events. SCCA events may be different, but the PCA events most certainly have this social element.
I've wondered about how I could have so much fun over the 7 hours or so at which I'm at the event with only 5 minutes of driving, but what the heck. The bottom line is that I do have a lot of fun! We're all different and YMMV, but it's certainly worth it for me. Like-minded company and the opportunity to drive your Porsche right at the limit for an extended period: Great stuff!
Regards,
Greg
This was mentioned in passing, but maybe not emphasized: A PCA AX event isn't just a race, it's also a social event. Yes, it takes time to get to know the folks involved who compete on a regular basis, but I certainly have found it worth making the effort. I've met an awful lot of nice people and I always look forward to seeing them at upcoming events. SCCA events may be different, but the PCA events most certainly have this social element.
I've wondered about how I could have so much fun over the 7 hours or so at which I'm at the event with only 5 minutes of driving, but what the heck. The bottom line is that I do have a lot of fun! We're all different and YMMV, but it's certainly worth it for me. Like-minded company and the opportunity to drive your Porsche right at the limit for an extended period: Great stuff!
Regards,
Greg
07-18-2017, 11:13 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Stick with autocross if you like even a small part of it, but not if you don't. Do a few events and working the corners will show you how the really fast drivers hold their lines in that area. STAY WITH IT! After a while offer to do more than just your assignment of cone *******. Somewhere along the line you will see that the people who seem to have no work assignments actually have 2 or more assignments. A fair handful will be working on your events well before the season starts. It is a volunteer sport and some of us put a lot of time and effort into every event. As a course designer it is my job to get the cones set up to challenge you, **** you off, whatever. But be safe! Season start and season end I arrive in total darkness with just my slugg of coffee. Need to unload my car so wifey can get her hoosiers out, free my truck from the trailer so I can load cones for setup, lay out the course. Set up corner stations and then go back to paddock and change wifeys tires. And at the end of the day put her streets back on. Efficient? Schit, that is how we roll.
07-26-2017, 07:07 AM
#36
I run the auto X's for our region and we run 5 a year. On one of our venues we are not permitted to have the first car off until 11 AM ( local noise abatement) We normally have 30-40 cars which I split into two tun groups. When you are not running your group mans the corners. So first car off at 11 AM and we start packing up around 1:30. Each driver gets 1 practice run and 5-6 timed runs so it is basically a half day event and people get to spend half of Saturday with their families. On our other venue where we can run earlier we are done by noon.
At the point we only allow PCA members with PORSCHE cars but they can be members of other regions. Drivers meeting is an hour before the first run and tech ends prior to the drivers meeting. Works for us
At the point we only allow PCA members with PORSCHE cars but they can be members of other regions. Drivers meeting is an hour before the first run and tech ends prior to the drivers meeting. Works for us
08-02-2017, 01:12 AM
#38
Three Wheelin'
We just had an AX on Sat
90+ drivers, 6 run groups 2 practice sessions of 6 laps each, 1 timed run session of 4 laps
TTOD was ~ 1:21
not a bad deal for $60
ran smooth as silk
90+ drivers, 6 run groups 2 practice sessions of 6 laps each, 1 timed run session of 4 laps
TTOD was ~ 1:21
not a bad deal for $60
ran smooth as silk
08-07-2017, 10:54 PM
#39
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When morning run group is done, break for 30 to 45 minutes for lunch, do the switch, and start the afternoon group. Simple as that.
With 75+ people, we all get between 8 and 12 runs each, depending on how many timer issues, cars leaking something on the track, yellow flags for spinouts, etc.
Good to go.
NNJR runs some high quality AX events and MetLife Stadium has lots of large lots to set up courses in. Lots of lots, yes I did say that.
That being said, Auto-X does not do for me what Track DE's do for me. Still love 'em both.
Have at it....
08-08-2017, 10:35 AM
#40
On this I have to agree. I was heavy into autocross for many years. I had a WRX which I threw money at and made myself poor preparing it for STX. I brought home a few trophies from national events, but nearly went bankrupt. I sold the car and stayed away for several years. Now I have a Porsche and after attending the SCCA ProSolo in Oscoda, MI over the weekend and working a corner with burglar I'm suddenly ready to buy wheels and tires and take a knife to the gun fight in Super Street.
Inefficiently run autocross events can suck the life out of you and ruin the entire experience. Something like a ProSolo, while certainly way more expensive than any local event, is an experience all its own. If you want to see efficiency just go watch. We ran 218 drivers through 4 runs between 9am and 12:30pm. That's 8 different run groups and worker change-over happens on the fly. No stopping. There was a 20 minute break for lunch and then we ran all 218 drivers through 4 more runs and the day was done by 4:30pm. Pop open the beers and celebrate the day. Come Sunday we did it all again in the morning with the day starting at 8am and all 218 drivers done by 11:00am, even with a 15 minute delay because someone spun and took out the cables at the finish line.
As has been pointed out the difference between autocross and HPDE is the competition. An autocross will also teach you to be a better driver. An autocross course forces you to make fast, frequent directional changes and balance distance with speed conservation. The car spends more time at limit and nearly out of control, so you learn exactly what it's capable of and how to manage threshold braking and limit handling as a driver. It also teaches you to look ahead on course to see what is coming and where the course goes next. A sea of cones is harder to navigate than a road course where the color difference between asphalt and grass makes it easy. This translates over to track days and daily driving. You'll find yourself looking ahead on the road to see what traffic is doing a mile in front of you on the highway. You'll spend more time looking at the exit of a corner on your Saturday fun drive instead of the 20 feet in front of your car. You'll look beyond the car in front of you at an HPDE to see just how long the traffic stack-up is and how many corners or laps you're going to have to wait to get your point-by.
Fun fact:
Most automotive OEM's use an autocross course as part of testing for limit handling driver certifications. You have to pass the autocross portion before you can move on and test for race track certification.
Inefficiently run autocross events can suck the life out of you and ruin the entire experience. Something like a ProSolo, while certainly way more expensive than any local event, is an experience all its own. If you want to see efficiency just go watch. We ran 218 drivers through 4 runs between 9am and 12:30pm. That's 8 different run groups and worker change-over happens on the fly. No stopping. There was a 20 minute break for lunch and then we ran all 218 drivers through 4 more runs and the day was done by 4:30pm. Pop open the beers and celebrate the day. Come Sunday we did it all again in the morning with the day starting at 8am and all 218 drivers done by 11:00am, even with a 15 minute delay because someone spun and took out the cables at the finish line.
As has been pointed out the difference between autocross and HPDE is the competition. An autocross will also teach you to be a better driver. An autocross course forces you to make fast, frequent directional changes and balance distance with speed conservation. The car spends more time at limit and nearly out of control, so you learn exactly what it's capable of and how to manage threshold braking and limit handling as a driver. It also teaches you to look ahead on course to see what is coming and where the course goes next. A sea of cones is harder to navigate than a road course where the color difference between asphalt and grass makes it easy. This translates over to track days and daily driving. You'll find yourself looking ahead on the road to see what traffic is doing a mile in front of you on the highway. You'll spend more time looking at the exit of a corner on your Saturday fun drive instead of the 20 feet in front of your car. You'll look beyond the car in front of you at an HPDE to see just how long the traffic stack-up is and how many corners or laps you're going to have to wait to get your point-by.
Fun fact:
Most automotive OEM's use an autocross course as part of testing for limit handling driver certifications. You have to pass the autocross portion before you can move on and test for race track certification.
08-08-2017, 02:09 PM
#41
