Grantsfo

I think that would be enough tire then. Thats why its being kept out of the running. I think a 2.9 liter Cayman would be fun too!

NJ-GT

I think that a Boxster S would upset a nice and healthy class, it is too much car for the class. With STR rules the main handicaps on a Boxster get fixed: Lack of a LSD, limited camber and floppy suspension.

sjfehr

That's what makes it even more of a shame there's nowhere in ST* for the Boxster to run. Would be an awesome level of prep to compete in.

NJ-GT

Actually, you should send a letter in support to the street tire classes for stock classes. The proposal is either 1, 2 or 3 paxed classes for stock class cars where people can run the SCCA stock cars on street tires and be eligible for trophies and contingency.

I have found my Cayman to perform quite well on street tires. I run 285x18 A6 at all corners in A-stock, and 235/265x19 on stock heavy wheels for street use. On these same skinny street tires and heavy wheels I ran the first heat at two ProSolos last year for lack of time to change the tires (late arrival to the events). The car was fun, slower but fun.

It would be more fun to just drive my car to the event on the tires I'm going to compete on. Car, helmet, air pump (already in toolkit) and tire pressure gauge. Nothing else needed. 28 mpg, shorter trips to Tours and Pros and 1-2 secs slower lap times but competing against other people on street tires as well.

Earlydays

I'm not sure I buy your argument....I've never seen Boxster S's beating S2000's in stock classes, so why would you conclude that an STR prepped S2000 is automatically inferior to a prepped Boxster S??

NJ-GT

If you read the STR and stock class rules you will understand, and so does the SEB, and that's why the Boxster S won't enter STR.

Earlydays

I've read the rules and I still don't agree...I assume we're talking about the 986 "S", not the 987 "S"....
With respect to the SEB, I've been following their machinations for decades and my sense is "politics and tradition" carry as much weight as actual performance differences between the various makes and models.

NJ-GT

I disagree on the SEB comments. If there is a brand that can dominate many classes that's Porsche. Problem is that as long as the proper preparation Porsches and quality drivers don't show up, they won't triumph.

I had 2 S2000 AP1 and AP2 I tracked and autocrossed, and a 01 Boxster S. The S2000 already has a LSD, it has plenty of camber and it is fairly light, it is faster than the 01 Boxster S 3.2.

Stock:
Boxster: less than 1 degree negative camber, no LSD, 2900~ lbs.
S2000: aroung 2 degrees, LSD, 2700~ lbs.

STR:
986S gains on the S2000 by getting all the camber needed.
986S gains a lot on the S2000 by having a LSD not allowed in stock.
986S gains a lot on the S2000 by reducing more weight in STR trim.
986S gains more power than the S2000 due to custom headers

If the Boxster S enters STR, I'm in.

Earlydays

I don't dispute your basic STR analysis and the Boxster S would definitely become competitive and would be a great car for STR, but I don't think it would be so dominant as to knock the class out of parity. The S2000 guys can certainly mod their cars beyond stock per the same rules and improve on their stock performance.

PedalFaster

Don't forget that 986S also makes better use of street tires' limited traction due to its mid-engined layout.

I think you're missing his point, which is that the Boxster would benefit more from STR-legal mods than the S2000 does since the S2000 already has good camber and an LSD in stock form.

Earlydays

I do agree and understand his point that the Boxster relatively gains more than the S2000 by going to STR....my disagreement is with his earlier point that the Boxster will "upset a nice healthy class and be too much car for the class".

DOUGLAP1

There is no doubt that the Boxster benefits more from STR mods than the S2000, but it needs to in order to be competetive - the S2000 is definitely a faster car in stock form.

So, I think my original premise holds up - the 986S Boxster should be "competitive" in STR and not "dominant".

And after many years of observation, I am convinced that the SCCA definitely discriminates against anything that is perceived as expensive to run.

It took years before the SCCA finally allowed my M3 in STU where it is competitive but not dominant at local events.

sjfehr

What's the going price for S2000s? Aren't the prices within 10-20% of (EG, damned-near identical to) Boxsters of the same age and mileage? They were the last time I looked, at least. Cost is a BS excuse.

PedalFaster

No one mentioned cost before you brought it up.

In addition to all of the aforementioned advantages the Boxster would enjoy in STR trim, it's also important to note that the antipathy between the SCCA and Porsche owners is generally mutual. Despite the complaining on this board, there are many examples of Porsches being very favorably classed in years past: for example, the 996 GT3 won Super Stock at Nationals two years in a row, and was still considered the car to have for years afterward; many consider the Cayman S the car to have in A Stock, and it's won Nationals two years running; many more think the 996 is the car to have in A Stock. Despite this favorable classing, very few people came out and campaigned them; no one's even brought out an AS 911 nationally. Why should the SCCA risk making Porsches class overdogs when few people run them even when they are?

Yes, but purchase price is just the beginning when it comes to car prep, especially in STR. You can easily spend high four figures on a serious S2000 STR build, and you can break five figures with a cost-is-no-object build. Having owned Boxsters, 968s, S2000s, and a Miata, I can say from firsthand experience that Porsche parts are generally 50% - 200% more expensive than equivalent parts for Japanese sports cars.

sjfehr

Doug had mentioned the post right before mine that SCCA actively discriminates against any car perceived as expensive to run; while Boxsters may be perceived that way, and may cost more to purchase and build than S2000s, it's still a small difference. I certainly feel discriminated against with respect to STR class. 996GT3 has been rather unique.

We must also not forget that Nationals is only one event and only a small % of SCCA members attend. The majority of SCCA members autocross locally, and IMHO, the rules and classing should reflect what's best for the regions, with nationals paralleling that, instead of the other way around as is happening now.