WTFitsCarter

Hi everyone just went to autocross this weekend and coincidentally I need a new set of tires. I would like to get a set for the street and a set for the track since i have two sets of factory wheels. Someone in my class (class 8) had what looked like toyo proxes r888's. I am trying to find the rating that makes them ok for the stock class or not. by looking at them i was surprised to see them in the class i just dont want to blow the money on em and have them put me in the next class while being a newbie.

Mussl Kar

Are you referring to Porsche Parade Competition rules? 888s will put you into Production 9 because they are R rated. OK for street and better than OK for track.

WTFitsCarter

Hi Mussl,
I am not sure of all the different rules for different groups. The one i was at on Sunday was NER I believe you were at the same event I was since you have a GT3 RS and i can't imagine their are more then one around this way. Was it your 997C2S with the Toyo tires as well? both cars are awesome! I will probably go to the NCR one this saturday which will be only my second autocross event.

Thanks,
Carter

Mussl Kar

The black C2S with GT3 RS aerokit is driven by wifey, rolling on 888s. NER PCA has a different numbering system than Parade rules. 888s should put you in the same class as Susan, and also some stinking fast other drivers. The C2S is only driven on the street to and from Devens (87 miles each way)so we just keep the 888s on the car. She will do maybe 30 events this season and will get a fresh set for next year. Your best bet is to stay on street tires for autox if that was your first event. Much easier to learn that way. NCR will have you in a different class than Susan if you are on street tires.
Scruffy
Driver of the green car.

WTFitsCarter

Hi Scruffy,
Thanks for the input. the GT3 RS aero kit on her car looks great and your GT3 RS was extremely impressive going into the first turn (i was chasing the cones). Thanks for the advice on tires. I'll keep running stock tires until i get the hang of it. Is their any advantage to running low tread on stock tires in autocross vs tires with plenty of tread on them? (rain of course is the wild card)

You going to be there on Saturday?

Thanks,
Carter

Mussl Kar

Thanks for the compliments. If you have some tread left then run them until they almost cord. This depends on how far away you live from the event. Talk to me more at the event.
I'm the new course designer for NCR, and will be there extreemly early to set up the cones to mess with your heads for the day. Should be a good mix of fun and pain.

WTFitsCarter

It was nice meeting you yesterday! I had a blast on the course and the well organized event all together.

I do have another question regarding alignment and tire wear. Before the two events I went to i had about 4/32 left on my rear tires. After the two events my right rear had 2/32 on the passengers side out side edge and had cords showing on the inside tread. On the drivers side rear tire i now have 3/32 on the outside and 1/32 on the inside. (michelin PS2s) My fronts have a about 2/32 more wear on the inside then the outside as well. Before the event they seemed to be wearing rather evenly but i never took a tire cage to them to really check.

So i was wondering how you have the alignment on your wifes car setup since she also has a 997 C2S/

I drive the car pretty often and for everything besides my work commute and shopping etc. So i would like for it to not kill tires during daily driving but also not unevenly wear the tires during autocross. Is their an alignment setup allowing a happy medium? I know i have only done 2 events so far but I am already getting addicted to it. (thats my personality) so i figured it would be best to get this figured out sooner rathe then later.

I have two sets of 997 S wheels and decided it would be the most economical to run two sets of "stock" street tires on each set of wheels. The nice wheels with good street tires for daily driving and a low tread crappy set for autocross abuse using a used set of the "ebay special of the week". But i dont want to waste either set by not having the car aligned properly to handle normal street driving or autocross events.

So in a nut shell is their a solution to this problem or is it a classic case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too?

Thanks again!
Carter

WTFitsCarter

It was nice meeting you yesterday! I had a blast on the course and the well organized event all together.

I do have another question regarding alignment and tire wear. Before the two events I went to i had about 4/32 left on my rear tires. After the two events my right rear had 2/32 on the passengers side out side edge and had cords showing on the inside tread. On the drivers side rear tire i now have 3/32 on the outside and 1/32 on the inside. (michelin PS2s) My fronts have a about 2/32 more wear on the inside then the outside as well. Before the event they seemed to be wearing rather evenly but i never took a tire cage to them to really check.

So i was wondering how you have the alignment on your wifes car setup since she also has a 997 C2S/

I drive the car pretty often and for everything besides my work commute and shopping etc. So i would like for it to not kill tires during daily driving but also not unevenly wear the tires during autocross. Is their an alignment setup allowing a happy medium? I know i have only done 2 events so far but I am already getting addicted to it. (thats my personality) so i figured it would be best to get this figured out sooner rathe then later.

I have two sets of 997 S wheels and decided it would be the most economical to run two sets of "stock" street tires on each set of wheels. The nice wheels with good street tires for daily driving and a low tread crappy set for autocross abuse using a used set of the "ebay special of the week". But i dont want to waste either set by not having the car aligned properly to handle normal street driving or autocross events.

So in a nut shell is their a solution to this problem or is it a classic case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too?

Thanks again!
Carter

utkinpol

stock alignment is pretty much a simple thing - max possible negative camber in front, 0.02 or 0 toe in front, then in rear you do -.5 degrees more of camber than front (like -1 front, -1.5 rear) and 0.10 toe in rear. to get to max cambr in front mechanic will need to loosen up bolts on upper mounts and move mount inside with a crowbar. any good indi shop knows how to do that, some dealership mechanics sometimes activate 'dumb mode' and say front camber is not adjustable for more than .3 degrees or so - that means they do not want to touch upper mounts.

different rear tires wear most likely shows you did hit a pothole hard enough and your toe got changed. it is a goo thing to put those or similar toe arms in rear -
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...lnk-detail.htm

they will keep toe in rear axle perfectly but i think for stock class it is forbidden too.

WTFitsCarter

Hi Utkinpol.. I am new to suspension geometry as well as autocross... I have had cars lowerd before and had an indi shop put it in as well as all the extra parts required.. So forgive me if I ask a question you already answered.

The alignment you have noted above is that the stock alignment setup or the setup i should do with my stock suspension for the autocross/street friendly combo I am looking for?

So you think my wear is more from it being misaligned from the stock setup by hiting potholes rather then not being setup for autocross? (that would be good news!) And those toelinks would keep the car from going out of alignment when hitting potholes.

Thanks for your help on this. Would you mind telling me where you get your car aligned since we are both in Mass.. I called EPE and they do have an alignment machine there.

Thanks!!!
Carter

Mussl Kar

My guess is that your uneven wear is just an alignment issue. Check Porsche Parade rules very carefully as to what you can and cannot do to your car. My advice would be to go to an alignment somewhere between street and full aotocross crazyness. This will save you $ on excess wear for your street tires. Since you are new to the sport there are more important issues to deal with than alignment and tire pressures. I ran in 30 events in my first year and never bothered with tire pressures or alignment. Corded my cup tires on the inside of the rears.

Mussl Kar

And another driver gets addicted. (insert evil grin here)

utkinpol

Carter,

excessive wear in rear axle in like almost 90% of cases is caused by either excessive or wrong toe settings.
it is a known problem for 997 cars - C2 an C2S, i do not think GT3 surfers from that - if you do hit your rear hard enough, or if you go via corners hard enough - those toe arms bushings (or heck knows what else) slides out and toe setting changes. after that you start getting a heck load of weird stuff - very first sign of a problem is always uneven tire wear on different sides.

i got my car used with 39K miles on it, previous owner was not a sport inclined guy - so, car was 'maintained' at dealer only an apparently for its whole life it was NEVER aligned properly, toe settings were off by .8 in rear! it was just crazy.

there is no 'autocross' setup as we speak if you are not swapping out suspension parts, you are very limited there. it is a generic slipping slope - to get as much camber as you can with as 'less' toe as you can.
problem here is - when you go to 0 toe in front your car`s behavior changes dramatically - it jumps into corner perfectly, but on straights you can forget how it was when you could take your hands off steering wheel - you will hav no more stability there. so speak to mechanic, if you just occasionally do auto-x you may keep some amount of toe in front, like 0.02 or 0.05.
by default it may be like 0.4 or 0.8. who knows.

unless you started swapping parts in your suspension and using r-comp tires - you are in pure stock class. alignment numbers do not matter, it is still stock. car with alignment i told you about will feel crazy fast after what you are used to, i can promise that. for me it was like a 3 step enlightenment - first to align it properly in stock form, then get GT3 LCA arms so i went to -2.4 front, -1.9 rear camber , and now - new shocks, monoball arms, etc. a lot of people tel me it was way premature for my level to rebuild suspension and they are probably right but heck, it feels so great.

as scruffy noted - it is a very slippery and expensive slope, for me it ended up with $12K new suspension. which I do not regret any single bit at all, it is all fun. but for beginning - do not change anything there, at least for an year, just do this alignment i told you about. bill phister at eurotech framingham, 3 grant st, is an excellent mechanic, use his services, he is expensive but knows his stuff 100%. EPE is great shop when jerry pelegrino works on cars himself i guess, i had alignment done there initially but when it was time to do next changes bill showed me his measurements and they were way off from what i ha done a EPE - i do not know why, but i would recommend to chose one shop and work with it all the time as it helps to go to same place all the time.
i use bill and do not regret it. a lot of folks go to jerry an do not regret it. EPE is a bit more 'upscale' place, perhaps.

thanks, paul.

utkinpol

i look at my car now and can only scratch my head - what class do i fit now... it is all stock Porsche made GT3 parts i got, well, mostly so i do really want to hope it is P11 but i have doubts about JRZs as they are dual adjustable shocks. even if i never play with rebound adjustments.

WTFitsCarter

Yup! I think i might switch to crack... its wayyy cheaper haha.