Jason_86_951

One of my autoXing friends wrecked his 84' 944 last month at the track.
He was considering repairing it for autoX next year. The frame is REALLY tweaked (front truss bent at a right angle) so I recommended not to bother.
So he bought another 84' 944 with a blown motor (bent valves) for $500 for the chassis
.
Anyways which version would be more competitive in SCCA:
(1) early NA built to the best of factory options for stock class.
(2) early NA stripped/dipped mod the crap out it and run in a prepared/modified class.
(3) 944 S2 built to the best of factory options for stock class
(4) 944 S2 stripped/dipped mod the crap out it and run in a prepared/modified class.
(5) 968 of some sort

He is an excellent driver and in a few years could be national level with the right car. He loves 944's and wants to stick with them.
I think his budget is fairly flexible, as he is selling his Boxster S to race 944's.
Budget=(2) problem 944 NA's and $10k..........maybe more if we can come up with a good argument for it.
We welcome your opinions.
Thanks!!!

earlyapex

Jason, the answer is probably lying in front of you. Your friend sounds like he wants to compete in the SCCA national solo II event so he should look at the results for each year and see if the 944, 944S2 and/or 968 are competitive in a perticular class. He can call up the good drivers to see what they are running so he doesn't have to reinvent the wheel.

PedalFaster

Actually, results data isn't readily available since very few people have run these cars seriously at the national level in a few years.

Caveat: I'm only really familiar with SCCA Stock classes.

For national-level SCCA competition, I'd recommend the 968. The 968 was the dominant car in A Stock (now B Stock) before the S2000 and the Boxster came along; it should still be able to give the Boxster a run for its money, although it would have its work cut out for it against the S2000. There is potentially light on the horizon, though -- there was a proposal out to move the S2000 and Boxster up a class to AS, in which case, the 968 would be one of the top remaining cars in BS. The catch? You're not going to get a 968 in good shape for anywhere near $10k.

Next most competitive option would be an ES 924S. Consensus is that they're not as fast as the class-leading MR2s, but they have been shown to be capable of trophying at Nationals.

General feeling is that ES 944s are slower than 924s because they're wider and heavier.

Last would be a 944S2 -- basically like a 968 but slower.

I don't know about classes other than Stock. The Beechers campaigned a 944 Turbo in I think Prepared a year or two ago, but I wouldn't go that route personally.

Steve

PedalFaster

As an aside, at the risk of being harsh: the guys commenting on your other thread don't seem to be particularly well-versed with national-level SCCA Solo competition, so I'd take their comments with several grains of salt.

Steve

Jason_86_951

Steve,
Thanks! Your the guy I was looking for an answer from anyways.
You missed a great event in Packwood last weekend, great site. Good luck on the Ebay bids tonight! I told a few people about your car this weekend. One was very interested, he got even more interested after a ride in my B-prepared 951.
Jason

N_Halbert

Steve is right. I come from PCA competition and when you compare the 944, 944s, 944s2, 968 and Boxter/S the 944 and 944S are fairly even, then the 944s2 and 968 are about even but a sec or two faster than the the other two. I used to be the 944s2, 968 and Boxter were about even but the Boxter guys have finally started to figure out how to drive them and pick up 2-4 seconds on the same course same day over the S2 and 968. So, given if they are all in the same class in SCCA the boxter would be the better weapon in stock form. Note: most top boxters in our area have at least the factory sport/S suspension.

BruceWard

The results from the Porsche Parade AutoX are online at http://www.parade04.org/results/axRes.htm .

A 944 & S2 were able to dip below 87 seconds, a couple of 924S were just over 87 and I had the fastest time of a 968 with an 89. A stock Boxster and Boxster S both had 84s and a P Group Boxster and Boxster S both had 81s. In both cases the Boxster was a little faster than the S.

A 924S would leave a lot of the budget for upgrades.

Leeds Gulick

I agree with PedalFaster and N_Halbert's evaluations of relative competitiveness but would be extremely wary of drawing conclusions from Porsche Parade results. I've been to 13 Parades and was in charge of the Boise Parade Autocross in 2002. I've set top P class times at a couple Parades in a 1999 996 including a 2nd overall ahead of all Improved and all Modified cars except one in 2001 and I'm normally almost a second behind my normal co-driver at other events. I have a great time at Parades, but the autocross is 90% or more casual or once-a-year autocrossers. The results are hugely distorted by driver ability. My local region autocrosses are more competitive as we have about 5 members with SCCA National Championships.

Leeds

BruceWard

Leeds I have to second your comments. I did well at Parade but have great difficulty placing third in class at local SCCA events.

I do think that the Parade results are useful for a comparison amongst Porsche models though.

PedalFaster

Not necessarily -- in order for a comparison to be valid, the drivers must be equivalently skilled and consistent enough to put in reproducible times. That's definitely the case at the SCCA's Nationals, but doesn't appear to be the case at Porsche Parade -- there's no way a properly driven Boxster S won't handily outrun a Boxster, for example.

It's instructive to look at how the various cars discussed on this thread are classed in SCCA's Stock class and their classes' PAX values (plus my off-the-cuff assessment of the cars' competitiveness in their classes in brackets):

996 - SS, 0.836 (low)
Boxster S - AS, 0.828 (high)
993 - AS, 0.828 (med/high)
Boxster - BS, 0.826 (med/high)
968 - BS, 0.826 (med)
944 (16v) - BS, 0.826 (med)
951 - BS, 0.826 (low)
924S - ES, 0.804 (med)
944 (8v) - ES, 0.804 (med/low)

Steve

Jason_86_951

Leeds,
Loved the write-up in GRMS on your 914! I met you briefly this spring at the Yakima AX, nice car!

Thanks everyone for your input. At this point we are going to fix his NA and run the stock class for now.
Jason

Drew_K

I have to disagree with this also. I know of several national caliber SCCA autocrossers that have competed at Porsche Parade, and the level of talent across the PCA classes varies quite a bit, so you really can't compare across models and classes unless you're familiar with the driving level of the actual drivers.