hacker-pschorr

That's just noise that should be edited out

I'm sure all that extra racket is edited out of a Miley Cyrus song, never cared enough to find out.

cobalt

Please explain?

Next your going to tell us CD players sound life like. LOL That is something you will never be able to convince me of. I have too many years dealing with high end stereo equipment.

On Easter Sunday they played Handel on our churches ridiculously expensive organ. I happen to have a vinyl copy of Handel played on organ someone gave me. I can assure you there is nothing electronic sounding about it. Even the ultra low frequencies were reproduced flawlessly. The only difference was our organ is behind us vs the recording which was recorded with the organ in front.

Franklin229

????

mikehelms

Interesting thread.

I have clung on to about 400 LP's and 45's, most of which are from fairly rare Canadian bands that I used to be really into. For me, it's not so much about sound quality as it is knowing that many of these LP's were literally in the band's hands at some point, and were probably sold directly to their audiences at early concerts. As cultural artifacts, they're tactile and "real" in an unmistakable way.

But in terms of quality ... I'm willing to sacrifice a bit for the convenience of my MP3's. No sound quality - perceived or otherwise - will convince me to give up my iPhone and the 8000 songs waiting at my fingertips. Sure, it's not the rich, warm sound of vinyl ... but if I waited for those zen-like moments when I'm ready to warm up the amp, dust off the vinyl and get everything just-so, I'd probably really "listen" to my music about once a month.

I love the idea of being an audiophile, but it just doesn't make practical sense to me I wish it did.

Cheers,
-- Mike

SidViscous

As soon as you explain this "warmth" you speak of.

cobalt

Fair enough, but remember you asked for it.

I have been an audiophile since the late 70's. My system has taken on many transformations over the years. My current table is a transrotor darkstar with clearaudio divinci cartridge running through a tube pre and phono stage and a pair of class A SS amps . I started with a sony CD player many many years ago. 1st generation CD the technology was great the sound not so much. very brash, harsh and expensive.

My current CD player is an arcam which gets very good reviews. I have auditioned numerous players over the years and until you get well into the $20k range I don't find much improvement. Not getting into SACD for now. The limited sound stage of the CD is very abrupt and in your face. There is very little definition between the instruments, vocals and subtle percussion instruments. Basically a wall of sound that hits you head on. Separation of sound is difficult to hear unless you close your eyes and focus on the individual instrument, vocals or whatever you are listening to.

My TT on the other hand presents the music like a large stage. Low in front with separation between instruments and vocals all in their correct placement. There is no feeling of stereo speakers feeding you sound. Even with your eyes open you hear everything as though it is being played for you in front of you coming from distances both far and near and side to side. Each strum of string or beat of the drum comes across in away that you hear not only the pluck of the string but the different tones it carries as it fades. All the while simultaneously you are hearing the sounds of cymbals or the keys of the piano changing tone as the pianist lifts their foot off the pedals. Back ground vocals can be differentiated so that you can hear not just back ground voices as a group but the individual voices and that the group of three woman to the side are singing slightly different pitch or what race they are based on the tone of their voice while the pianist on the left is singing with them but separately and his voice travels from the opposite side from the others while he plucks away at the keys as the sound resonates.

An interesting song comes to mind is Lou Reed walk on the wild side . The part that goes "as the colored girls go" "Du du du" they are traveling from a great distance off from the right, pass in front of you and then travel past you to the left all the time hearing each voice separately but combined. There is a realism that I find very few digital recordings offer and not many players can accomplish. I recently picked up Neil Young Live at Massey hall. The sound is phenomenal every squeak in his voice and strum of the guitar takes on a life of its own. Every syllable he sings is clear and audible which is not the case most of the time when listening to CD.

Yes technology is getting better but not from CD recordings played back in real time. With 24/192 recorded on to a pc with DAC I have heard some very close recordings but still missing the full flowing sound my ears hear from a well recorded LP on a good system. The music involves you and surrounds you in a way that CD's do not. Very much the difference between a Porsche and other equally capable cars. They might both travel the same distance in the same time but one offers a feel and connection to the road that the other is lacking.

I don't know how else to describe what I experience when I listen to my Lp's but I am sure if you sat and listened for a while you would quickly pick up on what i am trying to express.

OK your turn now.

hacker-pschorr

This question feels the same as trying to explain the difference between a 996 and 997 to my sister. Unless they are different colors, then it's easy: "The 997 is the red one..."

SidViscous

That was a lot of explanation about your equipment and your listening experience, you haven't described what warmth is

SidViscous

Are you saying I'm ignorant of the details of sound and reproduction of signals, because I've been working in data for 20+ years. Up to and incluiding installing commercial audio systems.

I can handle it.

hacker-pschorr

Just a reality some people understand, see things, and hear things differently.
No different than an art gallery with a group of people marveling over a red dot on a white canvas spending hours discussing what it means. I don't get it, and never will. Nor do I care to.

Some people see Ralph Lauren's car collection as art, some a waste of good machinery, and others simply a waste. All three answers are correct.

My co-worker cannot tell the difference between the most overly compressed MP3 and a loss-less FLAC digital file of the same song. He can look at a dozen pages of code and pick out the flaw like nobody's business though.

So you cannot hear the warmth, and clarity of a good Vinyl setup and are content with CD's.
Same as my friend who flips between HD and regular channels during an NFL game on my 1080P screen and says there isn't any difference between the two. I cannot convince him the HD channel is a better picture. He just doesn't see it.

SidViscous

No see I can understand that too. People ability to fool themselves into believing they are seeing hearing something that they are not is a well known phenomenon.

However Audio is an even more well known phenomenon. it's about frequencies and and amplitudes, very very easy to see and understand what is going on (if precise tuning for specific issues, like room shape and the materials the room is made out of, is difficult).

Mechanical noise from the Record player system is also well known, and it can be quantified to many more decimal places than people can hear. While it has other drawbacks, unitended and undesirable noise from mechanical effects is not one of that CDs have.

hacker-pschorr

You keep focusing on the mechanical noise of a record. You keep skipping over the fact that there are much higher quality files available beyond CD's that are still 100% digital available from some artists.

I have some FLAC downloads directly from the artists that are hands down better than the same recording on CD - just like many vinyls are.

Are you claiming that taking a CD, ripping it to an MP3 then compressing the hell out of it does nothing to the sound quality? If not, then how can you sit there and claim there isn't possibly a higher level of quality over a CD recording?

If every album I have was also available from the artist in a loss-less studio direct format (like Radio Head and Nine Inch Nails offers) I wouldn't buy the Vinyl records.

To say CD's are the highest level of audio quality is utter BS. They may be good enough for you, that doesn't mean what anyone else is hearing is fake.

One day I was humming along to the saxophone melody in Crush by Dave Matthews Band. My friend (a life long DMB fan) asked what the hell I was humming. He never heard it before and once I pointed it out he couldn't miss it.
If I was sitting next to you I would expect you to say I was making up sounds in my head

A good friend of mine is a drummer, is always pointing out drum beats nobody else in the room noticed before. He has demonstrated on many occasions the different beats, rhythms, background vocals etc.... that are much clearer and more of the overall music experience on many Vinyl records the CD's some how miss or bury.

SidViscous

Your putting words in my mouth. First I'm not saying anything about CDs being downsampled to mp3 (you can also get higher sampling rates in mp3 to of course) nor am I saying that CD's are the end all be all of audio quality.

So those are all straw men arguments.

I've said nothing about mp3, nor have I said that CDs beat out all other formats bar none.

hacker-pschorr

You are saying that people who claim vinyl records are better than CD's are hearing things in their head or confusing pops and squeaks associated with the needle on the record as better quality.

Sounds like the same basic argument as people who cannot hear the difference between a CD and compressed MP3's and CD's to their loss-less versions.

Just curious if you hold the same view across all formats or just vinyl.

If CD's are better than a compressed MP3, and a loss-less format is better than a CD (usually due to the compression associated with the data on the CD). Then why is it not possible for an analog format like vinyl to be better than a CD?

cobalt

Maybe you will understand this. CD's are like masturbating and a warm listening experience is like great sex with a gorgeous partner and you both climax together.

You have to experience it to understand the differences. Until you have sex masturbating did its job. LOL Sorry for your loss maybe one day you will understand. But I can't put it into words any better than that. It is not an illusion but a reality you obviously have never experienced.