Mike in CA

The tube versus SS, vinyl versus CD, analog vs. digital, esoteric versus consumer grade gear debate has raged for years, and is at the core of the audiophile ethos. It centers around the ability of audiophiles to hear subtle differences in electronic equipment; differences which are described not in quantifiable terms, but in very subjective ways such as dark, hollow, lush, presence, euphonic, colored, warm, veiled, etc.

Part of the discussion is about the way that audio gear is auditioned and reviewed. It revolves around the contention that knowing the brand, design, and cost of the equipment has an influence on how it's audio performance is perceived. My interest in this was first piqued by a test that Stereo Review did back in the early '80's. It was a comparison of speaker wire and tested whether expert reviewers who touted high end cabling could actually tell the difference between the most expensive speaker/amp interconnects available at the time, and heavy gauge zip cord available from the local hardware store at a tiny fraction of the price. In double blind testing, where neither the reviewers nor testers knew what was being tested at any given time, the experts were statistically unable to do as well correctly identifying which was which, as they could have done just by guessing.

There has been much written on this subject, from complaints about the double blind switching equipment used in such tests, to statistical anomalies in small scale testing that skew the results, to stress induced by the testing procedures themselves which make critical listening difficult. The link below from Stereophile magazine offers some lengthy discussion and arguments around both sides of the issue and I found it pretty interesting.

What do you all think about this?

http://www.stereophile.com/features/141/

A.Wayne

I know the Polemics involved in getting and reviewing audio gear and the internet is the best thing Hevaaaar for hi-fi enthusiast and consumers on a whole.


Follow the rags to keep in touch, then run .............


Subject at hand:

It all boils down to what works for yah, for me SS beats tubes , but i have heard tubes beat SS. SS works for me and my setup. It's like comparing DE tires , but instead of lap times , we discuss ride comfort, once it becomes subjective all bets are off , there are no winners , no best of the best , just yours and mine ....

LT Texan

What is amazing is how often do these reviews listen to non-amplified music?

What is their base-line?

A.Wayne

Advertising dollars and tenure in the good ole Bwoys club.........

Mike in CA

I think that's a really good analogy.

mdrums

Yep, I often wonder how many of these reviewers are musicians, how many of them actually go to a jazz club and sit and listen to acoustic jazz, how many actually go to a concert hall and listen to a symphony, how many of these reviewers actually know what real instruments really sound like in various acoustical settings.

On the other hand I wonder how many consumers in general that claim they are audiophiles actually know what real instruments really sound like. Also when auditioning gear are they considering the acoustical effects of the room they are listening in and is their room at home the same as the stores room...I highly doubt it.

With all that said I probably do not have what any of you here or any one in the so called high end boutique magazines would call a high end system. I have bought the best my ears listened too in many different acoustical settings and have acoustically treated my room to the best my money could afford. I use McIntosh amp and pre's with Klipsch Ref 7 speakers. People that I've had over to watch movies, watch concert DVD/Blu-Ray's have all been totally blown away. Yes there are some faults in my system and room and I know what they are and it's far from perfect but my system will deliver very detailed sound, live concert punch and volume and to me it just sounds real...like real live music.

cobalt

Well put.

Juan Lopez

Tubes are beautiful, great sounding and inconvenient. SS is instantaneous and almost as good, cheaper and requires no maintainance, adjustments and no preemptive warming up to perform at its peak.

Similar to vinyl, great but inconvenient. CD, SACD, SHMCD and DVDA are so convenient and no need to worry about having your kid mess up your stylus.

cobalt

Quality SS can sound as good as tubes and cost just as much if not more but in general i agree. Although my SS amp requires some warm up. My son knows he will live a short life if he messes with the TT.

Juan Lopez

Very true.

Mine likes some warm up but not the 6 to 10 hours that the Manleys preferred. They sounded great but you could feel the difference after everything was nice and warm.

spare tire

My preferences are vinyl and tubes but I own SS and I think the recomended 10% of your system should be spent on wires is voodoo science. Tires should be used for one heat cycle.

I think electro-static speakers sound great for classical. Rock sounds very lifelike with Klipsch. (the horn tweeters are exactly what rock concerts use)

I have Tannoys

A.Wayne

Had a digital only friend over this evening , Played the analog for him after listening to a few CD's .............



He is getting a table .. LOL.........

cobalt

Another one bites the dust.

mdrums

Do you all realize that your music is mixed and engineered on SS amps and/or most likely with speakers that have a built in amp? Tubes are sometimes used in recording, mostly in mic pre's to COLOR the sound to acheve a certain tone on a voice or instrument.

cobalt

Yes so how does that relate to the listening environment and equipment we use at home? Telarc recorded their recordings digitally and then made analog discs and high end CD's. I still prefer the sound of the Telarc LP over the CD.

I spent a lot of time in NYC recording studios in the late 70's early 80's. Speakers in the studio were self powered and the recordings done on varying multi-track tape. They would always record a separate cassette to playback as a reference since they knew the average consumer would not be listening to what we were hearing in the studio.