A.Wayne

In the end , it's the mastering suite that makes the final decision ..........

ChristianR

SS vs tubes. I will take a nice SS amp any day over tubes. Tubes cannot give you the dynamics and speed of the very best SS amps out there.

mdrums

It relates to that I am trying to get some of you to think.....how was the original sound listened to....What was the final product mix with. To me it's interesting to either try and acheive the sound the band and producer intended or to acheive a sound that you like better.

So, what is an audiophile then? A person that is just into the gear or a person that try's to reporduce the recorded music as faithful as possible?

A.Wayne

Agree , i feel the same way , but i have heard tubes do amazing things....

Yes ...But !!!!.............


My intent is to reproduce the input source as originally as possible, but that is not necessarily the intent of all involved and unfortunately that is also part of the game ......

rlips

I go to a Jazz club nearly every week, so I have a very good reference of what live music sounds like. After all these years, I have given up on trying to "accuratly" reproduce the sounds I hear live; there are just too many variables to consider.

To me, at this point, I look for my system to make a "pleasing noise"; if it sounds good to me and I enjoy it, it's right.

Simple!

spare tire

Live music at a club or venue is great but the clubs accustics are not as good as home. People smoking next to me and conversations and distractions all degrade the sound quality. A studio recording is cleaner and pure of all that when listened to at home. Even a live recording is sent to the recorder from mics and instruments. They do not set up mics 40 rows back and record from there. ( except at a Dead concert in the taper seats) Seeing music live is great and a worth while experience but the actual sound quality is usually not superior to home.

mdrums

I disagree...on most things here. Live music either in a jazz club or live music at your favorite local bar with minimal PA system will give you representation of what live real drums, sax, guitar ect really sounds like.... acoustics play a part in all live music either in a studio, club, music store or concert hall. Your home acoustics are not all that great either. Certain clubs are famous for there acoutics! A studio record is not actually pure and can be more manipulated than real live instrucments.

rlips

The club I go to has minimal PA, only the Bass and the Piano. I sit 5 feet in front of a 15 pc Big Band, pure acoustic power.

Here is a clip, I'm sitting front row, slightly to the right of the Drummer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxBEZgJP2n0

Trust me, nothing I have ever hear in high end audio has ever matched what this sounds like live.

cobalt

Sounds like this should have a thread of it's own. I agree that ideally live music should sound better but that is not always the case. So it becomes a product of the environment, how the music is presented and where you are sitting that will alter you perception. Larger venues are hard to get a real quality sound. Rarely are you sitting in the optimal seat without excessive reflections and not all artists are as good live as their studio recordings. On the other hand small cabaret type clubs can offer an amazing listening experience and in some cases the visual effects and audience add to the performance.

As an example I saw Pat Methaney in a small club in New Hampshire just prior to the release of his Off Ramp Lp. He debuted it for us that night about 3 weeks before it was released. The atmosphere acoustics and special effects made it a very memorable experience that could never be replicated by a stereo. However, i will say that i have heard the LP sound as good as the live performance. If I could hear the music live in that type of environment I would opt for it over a stereo however the stereo can do some amazing things if properly set up and be almost as enjoyable within the privacy of my own home. One other advantage is sometimes live performances can be a bit overbearingly loud at least you can set your level as you feel comfortable.

In the end it is all about the music so if you can experience it live why not. I still can put on the Off Ramp Lp and sit back and experience that night all over again.

George from MD

I do. I've heard some incredibly expensive high end audio equipment in near perfect acoustic environments and, while impressive, they can't match a Ronnie Scott's in London or a Blues Alley in DC.

Yes you can spend ten grand on a cartridge, thirty grand on a turntable and hundreds of thousands on speakers, the room etc. but it still ain't the same. Not by a long shot IMO.

mdrums

Tommy's big band is really great and Birdland is a great club with tons of history and recorded material. Tommy's plays DW and Zildjian 2 company's I work for.

A.Wayne

True .....

+10 ...

Hi-fi cannot sound like live music, because it is a recording of live music and as such will have varying degree of distortions, from microphone, room , mixing engineer interpretation, recorded medium et al.

The recorded effect will always be different and as such is very unique to each recording. Just the same way musicians hear instruments differently from those that listen , they are in the pressure wave of the instrument , the listener get's a lesser combination of such plus the room, with it's associated delays and ambiance...


Sizing of instruments is where hi-fi really fails .......

spare tire

I was refering to instruments in a venue are usually sent to an equalizing board and manipulated. A drum kit might have 4-5 mics and each person and instrument has one microphone. All this to capture the real sound of the instrument. How about playing your own piano at home without any amplification.
Sax, trumpet, trombone at home without any electonic boost. Lungs are the pure amps. Fingers and arms amplify percusion instruments. That is what I meant by pure. Very few places play music that does not require electrical outlets or batteries. I like it turned up to eleven just as much as the next guy but capturing perfect sound is subjective. The most acurate representation is live and acustic.

mdrums

true I agree on these points.

Hey, BTW I am enjoying the banter back and forth with all of you on this subject and others on this new forum.

talk later!

TWISE

I play my guitar through tubes and listen to my music on SS. I have heard many many many audio configurations, and I think they are just as unique as the people who set them up. If you are an audiophile and you got into my car (which is set up to perfection and sounds like butter), I do believe you would be fiddling with my settings immediately, all the while condemning me for choosing them. Lets face it we are a minority. Most people dont even know how to fine tune there experience. We all love talking about it, but we will never agree.

I own a 300.00 pair of Shure earbuds and a 16gb Ipod nano touch and that is the best stereo system I have ever owned. I find them comfortable and easy to wear for long periods of time. I wear them at the grocery store, working on my car, on the ladder out front taking down the x-mas lights. Sometimes my wife wants to listen too. She has a 9.00 pair of gummies we picked up at the CVS. She too is happy... I have other audio gear, I have a pro studio at my house, but man I love those damn earbuds and that ipod. I would cry if you took them away....