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Couldn't resist this picture and I texted it to D but I wanted to pop my head in and share. There's a lot of opinions and there's definitely different levels of crazy. I do feel like a crack dealer at times. I have to say thank you for the kind words Daniel and I'm happy you love the car the way it was. Feel so bad the luck you had especially when it didn't happen in your hands it's a crappy feeling. My main goal will be to help you achieve the biggest smile and get to where you want to be the best way we can. I can tell you that we have built a lot of extremely fast 997VTG's where we sometimes can't sleep at night without a motor build and 3.8 991TT's based on the same turbo charger that are the fastest out there. 850/900 VTG horsepower and torque is a fun place to be. There is a recipe to it and we have a strong team. I'm here to help you proceed with whatever feels right and fully stand behind it. Whatever we do we will do it the best we can!
I"ve had the spun camshaft issue. I just got it fixed and left it alone and did maintenance while in there.
However , these kind of threads make my head spin. Do whatever you want, just keep a few things in mind.
1. you'll never recoup any money you dump into the car. So be prepared to lose it forever for more power that you will rarely be able to use.
2. You want to make it stupid fast, be prepared for more problems and dumping more money into it down the road
3. Fixing the cam and maintenance is the safest and cheapest route to go.
4. Not sure all that money into mods is worth the one time you may get a chance to beat a 991TTS, when you could easily fix the car and go buy a 991S under warranty and already have that speed for the cash you will dump into a 997
Hi Sambo, Is there no way you can organise for D to drive a manual 997.1 turbo with 900bhp VTGS? When a customer is spending a tidy sum of money upgrading to forged internals etc important to manage their expectations. My own tuner organising for me to drive this at VMAX in Sept before I push the button.
You're a good guy and John Bray one of the worlds leading engine builders and we'd love to see how your 900bhp VTG cars stack up against Longboarders 997.2 stock VTG running 700bhp or Emres stock VTG ES 650/750 997 and 991 turbos. If you have any vids of this pls post them up. Running fast quarters or 1/2 mile is one thing on VTGS. Running fast mile and 1.5 miles whole different ball game on VTGS. Emre actually drops a mezger in a 991 turbo to set records!
For the record Ive seen an ES 650 997.2 PDK turbo run 21 secs 0-300kph on stock turbos and meth with my own eyes. Thats quicker than a gen 1 manual 997.1 turbo ES 850 running Garrett 3071 R with over 800bhp at the crank. This certainly doesn't mean the ES 650 has 900bhp lol.
Even when I upgrade my manual 997.1 turbo to forged internals with Xona 6564 no guarantee I will run faster than a humble PDK ES650 997.2 PDK turbo
Expectations and events are different in the states. As far as half mile and a quarter mile we have the fastest VTG 997 and 991's in the US as well as other countries. 1.5 mile events are not popular out here and even 1 mile has become scarce. I may not have one near him for him to drive although it's possible if he wants to fly out, but if our industry was built that way no one will do anything. That's pretty inconvenient. I think it comes down to reputation and relationship. We have definitely proven ourselves in the game just check out our Instagram. You won't find anyone un-happy with our stuff or claims and I'm proud of that. Whatever D decides to do I will help him get it done to its fullest. It just comes down to what will give him the most enjoyment. I think it's awesome that he reached out to see what everyone's thoughts are and get a little perspective. But everyone's opinions will always differ. Our VTG engine build is very specific and like I said we have a recipe. I'm happy to deliver hyper car performance in a beautiful manual transmission 997 turbo with great value if that's what the customer wants. But if it doesn't fit other people's needs that is respected. Cheers
Expectations and events are different in the states. As far as half mile and a quarter mile we have the fastest VTG 997 and 991's in the US as well as other countries. 1.5 mile events are not popular out here and even 1 mile has become scarce. I may not have one near him for him to drive although it's possible if he wants to fly out, but if our industry was built that way no one will do anything. That's pretty inconvenient. I think it comes down to reputation and relationship. We have definitely proven ourselves in the game just check out our Instagram. You won't find anyone un-happy with our stuff or claims and I'm proud of that. Whatever D decides to do I will help him get it done to its fullest. It just comes down to what will give him the most enjoyment. I think it's awesome that he reached out to see what everyone's thoughts are and get a little perspective. But everyone's opinions will always differ. Our VTG engine build is very specific and like I said we have a recipe. I'm happy to deliver hyper car performance in a beautiful manual transmission 997 turbo with great value if that's what the customer wants. But if it doesn't fit other people's needs that is respected. Cheers
Great any links or vids to manual 997.1 VTG hypercar performance or VBOX data for ease of hand?
I don't as we have not done this particular configuration on the 997 yet. We have done several cars with conventional turbochargers before but with ethanol fuel's and our recent advancements with the VTG performance I have no doubt it's going to be amazing. Maybe if everything works out I can get us all some Vbox data to enjoy.
Here's our 991 which you can easily search and you'll find several threads on. 9.7 in the 1/4 mile at several tracks in the states not just 1. 148 mph in the 1/4 mile. 176 mph in the 1/2 mile. 60 to 130 in 5 seconds flat. 100 to 200 km in 4.3 seconds and all this so far! We are working on PDK hardware and software and advancements to help us along even faster. The 991 he uses the same BV50 series turbo charger and although it is a more efficient engine we know what we need to do to the 997 in order to get some more power using ethanol fuel. Of course a PDK transmission car will always be faster but as far as performance and power measurement there you go.
I know a small group have always been skeptical of VTG performance claims from pretty much all US tuners. And that's OK I have respect for your opinion and you have your own sources to go to. Trust me there is no one correct way to do anything in this world. I'm not here to debate something we have proven over the years more than several times not just once by the way…And turn this into an exhausted thread haha. Again our team which consists of the best in the world has really proven what we can do so I'm excited to get my hands on this project. You may not be a Vbox person or a event participator. Customer didn't come to me and say make my car faster than X or I need to beat Y or even that I need this exact performance trophy. He wanted a very powerful reliable easy to drive set up that he can enjoy in this car and it will give him up-to-date exotic car performance. That's what we do. And we totally understand if others don't feel the same way. We also do very simple projects. Whatever the customer wants and I don't think it's for anyone of us to judge. I've seen quite a few opinions, expectations and goals in the last 22 years and they are always different.
This car has been tested up to 209 mph. We aren't even finished with it but it's a record setter here in the states.
Everyone have a great weekend! D, I got you and at least with me you know you have a 100% guarantee. Myself and my team many of which are in the signature below will stand behind every millimeter of everything you decide!
Last edited by SamboTT@ByDesign; 06-03-2017 at 01:49 PM.
Not sceptical just like to see data like anyone else buddy. If you want logs , vbox etc etc I'm always happy to share.
When you actually build a manual 997.1 turbo with hypercar performance on VTGs we all look forward to seeing the data and until that day this conversation is a bit moot. Hopefully it will be D's car!
Just for your info I reached out to John Bray the day he announced he'd set up on his own and I know he's built some fantastic record breaking water cooled mezgers. Both he and ES Motor will of course be given an opportunity to quote if and when I build my engine. The work will go to whoever I feel most comfortable when talking through the build not just based on cost as engine longevity and plug and play is important to me. I'm not sceptical of US engine builders or tuners at all and would happily use Ed Pink to build a 964 or 993 engine as they build the best air-cooled engines in the world - go figure they're not European. With DHL its a small world!
Its amazing what all you guys are doing with 997 and 991 PDK VTGS cars. More difficult to make a manual mimic that performance on VTGS trust me. You just about get there with Xona or Garrett 3071/3076 R but one miss-shift from 1st to 4th or 2nd to 5th and the PDK car disappears. Even with no miss-shifts Lonboarder drops 900bhp built 997.1 manual turbos for fun week in week out with his 997.2 PDK with just a remap map, exhaust/meth and some exceptional launching
I hear you mate. This thread was not about comparison and I don't like when it turns into that and I hope you don't either. I also don't wish to fill pages with more debate on it because I don't think there will be a winner. I'm not here to prove the validity of our methods or compare them to anyone else. We have earned that position. The OP just wanted opinions on what to do in this situation go big or go simple. He can decide what works for him and it won't work for everybody else. I did mention that PDK will be quicker and we all know that. This thread was not intended for comparing tuners or builders etc. It was just to see what other people would do in this situation. It is an unfortunate one. What he decides to do from here we shall see. And if he is happy that's all that matters to me. I still don't quite understand the question but I don't know if I want to know LOL. I don't have a car local for him to test and I don't think he's concerned about that as to date his car has done exactly what I said it would. I don't have vbox data on many of the things we provide because that's not always what we do. Very few companies own their own vehicle to go test every configuration these days. And very few customers demand that. If they do we deliver which we have. Perhaps the best position for Sam would be to just sit and see if the customer got what they delivered. The customer may order a hamburger or an aged steak. Whatever he decides it should be what he ordered and satisfy him the way he desires. If he wants to take that item and have it tested we will stand behind it. The thread is taking a wrong turn. We understand your opinion. We understand what you would do, with whom and what you think thank you so much! I hope this never happens to your car and I hope whatever you do you can do what makes you happy not other people. And you can validate it for yourself. And you don't build something that will only do one thing well. For the record if a car is built to meet a customer's goal for daily use and it performs like a manual transmission hyper car I think that's just OK. Not everybody needs to line up and launch to enjoy. We do that too. We do whatever is tasked of us just like many tuners that I know. I think I have one of the largest collection of threads on this forum and very few are the type that go to events or even own a vbox. But they are happy in the car does what they need or signed up for.
This car with the proposed build will make more power, have even less turbo lag, be rock solid and reliable. I'm finding myself repeating. So I will stop. I don't think there is one right way to do things my friend.
Cheers
Last edited by SamboTT@ByDesign; 06-03-2017 at 03:38 PM.
Just for grins, how does a modded 997TT 6MT compare to a stock 991TTS? I am not talking 0-60 times in which the TTS has the PDK advantage, but genuine street pulls, etc.
Say a 600whp 997 vs a stock 991TTS. What have we seen so far?
Good question. The 997 described is basically what the OP had right before this camshaft issue. Pump gas Stage 4 with 600 to the wheels. Just about everyone runs high-octane at events so if you took that package and ran race fuel it would compare to the 991 numbers we have seen with race fuel on Stage 3 (full bolt ons with stock turbo chargers) If we compare 1/4 mile times it's about 5 mph faster than a stock 991. In the 1/2 mile one of our customers with that configuration running high octane did 164.5 mph, the fastest I've seen in the states (thread on 6sp somewhere) and that is about how fast our full bolt-on 991's are on stage 3. I believe we have gotten up to 167 as well but that was with methanol injection. A Stock 991 turbo S does about 153 in the 1/2. Being that the turbocharger upgrade is pretty much the same bringing the displacement and engine pumping efficiency up to the VE near the 991 and controlling exhaust gas pressure/temperature should yield some pretty impressive numbers! Currently our 991 cars with the same By Design/TiAL turbo charger on a stock engine are putting down over 100 more horsepower than stock engine 997s being pushed pretty hard. With ethanol and our engine package we can bring this VE right up there! I would bet this car is capable of 170+ in the 1/2 mile when we are done. Possibly even more being that it is later we shall see. I'm willing to guarantee the 170 which again indicates the type of fun factor and power the car will put down while you can still take a long trip or go to dinner and be parked by valet driver! Here in the states 1/2 mile trap speed is a good comparisons because they are about as fast as most guys will go in the states and launch and shifting doesn't necessarily affect these measurements nearly as much if you were looking at terminal speed or engine horsepower output.
I guess what I am asking is does a 600-650 whp 997TT pretty much smoke a STOCK 991TTS in everything except standing start?
The reason why I ask is because most 991TTS are still under warranty and don't have mods, so if they are encountered on the street its safe to say they are stockish.
I guess what I am asking is does a 600-650 whp 997TT pretty much smoke a STOCK 991TTS in everything except standing start?
The reason why I ask is because most 991TTS are still under warranty and don't have mods, so if they are encountered on the street its safe to say they are stockish.
Here's my manual 997.1 turbo set up vs a 991 turbo S on stock turbos. Up to 150mph the 991 has the advantage and then its reversed.
Off of a roll that is very safe to say yes in a simple answer. I have made 991's my life for the past two years. We've done so many cool things and they're amazing cars. Stock they are like the third fastest production car in the world or something! But 600 to 700 crank horsepower is still a lot and helps with in gear acceleration. And that's the exact kind of acceleration performance a lot of guys are looking for. Push the gas and get planted back in your seat. Also a lot of us companies have had great success safely and reliably tuning the 991's for example to pretty high levels. We have done over 105 Stage 4 991s already! And about 12 PDK clutch upgrades. And of course huge projects with engine builds and even larger turbo charger conversions. Good times!
06-02-2017, 03:49 PM
By Design
