Dguth

Was really excited to purchase my first Porsche. Found a 2007 997 turbo manual with full Techart upgrades, only 24k miles and purchased it back in March. I can't leave cars alone, so since then I've been working with Sam at By Design (great guy and can only speak positively on his input response and help he's provided-highly recommend him). Installed upgraded 65mm VTG turbos, Kline Catless exhaust, Kline headers, By Design intercoolers, plenum, throttle body and Ypipe. Car already had fabspeed intake and EVOM tubes. We had everything dialed in with the tune on 93 pump gas, putting out over 600whp and 640 wtq. As my luck would have it, car was doing the final dyno runs and the dreaded P0021 hits. I'm unfamiliar with this issue but apparently the cam spun.
Now I'm faced with the decision to basically rebuild the motor. Pin all the cams, strengthen bottom and top end while I'm at it. Sending it to Sam where John Bray will be rebuilding the motor. I've got an option while I'm at it for just a little more to upgrade it to a 3.8 engine. I think I've made the decision to do it but just wanted to get the collective groups thoughts on if anyone has gone through this before and what you did.
At the end, it should be a great build and we can uograde the injectors as well for E85. I'm not looking for extreme horsepower but the car should easily put out mid 730 to 750 whp. The engine probably capable of up to 1000hp if I ever decided to go with bigger turbos, but I have no desire to go that high. I'll be without the car for a few months. Never nknew owning a Porschecould be so expensive but once I'm done with this hopefully nothing else breaks. Coolant lines have already been pinned. I also wonder whenever I go to sell the car if there's a market for this build with a 3.8 engine. Attaching couple pictures of the car and latest dyno run.


​​​​​​​

Skwerl

Have you determined for sure it's the camshaft itself? I've seen a few P0021 stories where owners brace for the worst and it turns out to just be a camshaft actuator solenoid, a ~$500 repair. Sounds like you have good help on the car so they probably already thought of that but you never know.

Dguth

Yeah, I would be really happy if it was just the solenoid or sensor. I took it to the dealership where they hooked it up to the PIWIS system. The sensor is fine and doesn't appear to be the solenoid. The head technician said it appears the sleeve or whatever you call it has moved on bank 2.

saabin

That stinks. BTDT, although my CPO covered mine. I think there was a guy here or 6speed (with similar mods to you) that also had his spin while on the dyno..

If it were me I'd prob. just fix the cams; a bottom end rebuild will be a tough check to write for a weekend toy..

Catorce

Let me preface this discussion by stating that I have many cars (check my sig) and also several what I would call "stupid" builds, ones that makes crazy HP like you are looking at. My 2011 Camaro makes 850whp on 91 octane, and 1000 or more on E85. I just finished building the long block on my 3.3 Turbo that is going in my 75 RSR Targa. It has all the Turbokraft bits on there, twin scroll turbo, 520WHP on a 2500 pound car.

I also placing an order for the Alpha AMS 9 kit to go on my '07 turbo.

So I GET IT. I get what you want to do.

HOWEVER, One thing you said raised a red flag - selling the car. I don't believe any of my mods will EVER recoup the money I put into them; in fact, they will probably prevent the car from selling compared to a stock car. Like you, I view a catastrophic engine failure as an opportunity to make it go faster.

Unlike you, I do all my own work, have a lift in my garage, and have been building Porsche motors for 25 years. Oh, and I never sell. Ever. That's why I have 14 cars and 9 Porsches and counting.

So my idea might be different than yours but honestly you are doing EXACTLY what I would do in your shoes - suck it up, rebuild, make it stronger, make it faster.

Good on you, and good luck bro.

bondjockey

A possible spun camshaft and you are already looking at a complete engine rebuild for $20k+ and you are only interested in an additional 100hp over what you have now? I must be missing something.

05Mdriver

I would prob fix the cam and be done

enjoy a solid motor and a conservative tune

how fast do ya need to go.

TT Surgeon

^ agree

vbb

I thankfully didnt have a spun camshaft when I threw that CEL. Actuator solenoid is usually the issue. That said, if you've determined that's not the fix and you do need to fix a spun cam, I'd probably NOT do a full out engine swap. I'd fix the cam, go with a conservative tune and call it a day. Unless you race your car, you'll never get yo use anywhere near that kind of power and your resell market for a high HP build like that is extremely small.

IMI A

+3 no brainer unless you've bent the rods too or there is damage to liners or pistons.

Just pin the cams.

Very bad luck and I hope she's running good again soon. What sort of boost were you running through those 65mm VTGS by the way?

Skwerl

My guess he was already itching to do a 3.8 build and this is just a decent excuse to tear into it and get started. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

o7silverturbo

Damn we went from spun cam to a 3.8 engine swap that escalated quickly.


I would just pin the cams and be done with it

But if you going for a 1000 whp I say DO IT lol

Dguth

Thanks for all the feedback coming through guys! You're right, things escalate really fast from just fixing the cams to "oh while you're in there let's do X, Y and Z" Before you know it - you're at a 3.8 build. I'm also one of those guys that doesn't like to do it half way. For example in my Audi S6 - I didn't wait for stage 1 or 2 - I went to full stage 3 with RS7 turbo upgrades.


There is a lot of cost with this kind of build versus return. I intend to keep the vehicle at least for the next 3 to 5 years and maybe longer. Going the extra mile may keep my "wandering" eye off the next car that's a little faster...


At this point, I'm evaluating just what you guys are recommending: just fix the cams and be done with it or build this thing right and have one hell of a car to drive....


One question was asked how much boost am I running on my current upgraded turbos. It's peaking at 20PSI in sport mode but it's pulling in over 505 air...


And one more note of clarification - this build isn't a 3.8 engine swap. I believe John Bray is able to take my current Metzger engine and make it into a 3.8. So you kind of get the best of both worlds - A Metzger engine that's now a 3.8 versus a 3.6 which benefits you more power and torque across the RPM band not just at the peak...


Keep the feedback coming!

786

is a spun camshaft a relatively rare occurrence? ive never heard of this. are any preventative measures available?

Skwerl

Good long thread here: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...-camshaft.html

It's certainly not an unheard of issue, but it's hard to say how rare exactly since people don't usually post threads titled "Camshaft's doing great!" My impression is that it's less common than the coolant pipe defect.

Anecdotally it appears it can happen to any car at any mileage and there's nothing you can do - people have posted that their 25k-mile gently driven stock cars have experienced it, others have had them go at 70k, and some modified track rats are sailing past 90k miles with no problems.

And as a hypochondriac I'll now get to spend the next several drives anxiously waiting for that $8000 CEL to pop up...