So when do the 997 Turbo's begin to appreciate?
12-13-2014, 10:42 AM
#16
From all the past history on the Turbo models ever built by Porsche, two models come to mind as dissapoinments . The 996 turbo and the slant nose turbo. All the rest have been very collectible. The 996 turbo is a great machine as well as the slant nose, but it's like classical music. Classical music, you can listen to it, sounds lovely and very passionate. After a couple of tracks, ok next. That's how I feel about it. All the rest of the turbo iterations, like opera!
12-13-2014, 12:24 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
I feel your pain, see my sig.
Hey scorpios looked cool!
12-13-2014, 12:37 PM
#19
Racer
They are getting close to bottom for 2007-2008 models. 2009 not far behind.
2010-2013 are still asking strong dollar because of warranty and price of 991 TT...
It will be some time until people figure out how good these things are.... manuals will become harder to find.
I am holding out for a 997.2 TTS PDK cabrio when they bottom as it really is a nice all round 911.
2010-2013 are still asking strong dollar because of warranty and price of 991 TT...
It will be some time until people figure out how good these things are.... manuals will become harder to find.
I am holding out for a 997.2 TTS PDK cabrio when they bottom as it really is a nice all round 911.
12-13-2014, 06:24 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
997/1 Turbo
15.626 Coupé - 6.099 Cabrio
997/2 Turbo
3.301 Coupé - 1.752 Cabrio
997 turbo S
3095 coupe - 2055 Cabrio
Source :
http://www.motorbuch-versand.de/prod...1_Porsche.html
About the author:
Marc Bongers is a German Porsche historian who spent many years employed by Porsche in the factory archive at Zuffenhausen. The book has been compiled with Porsche’s blessing.
Coupe manual 997/1 production around 35% of total production = +/- 5500
Coupe manual 997/2 production around 15% of total production = +/- 500
(manual % is not confirmed by Porsche but most use the 30 to 40 percentage for 997/1 and 10 to 20% for 997/2)
For reference 993 turbo worldwide production : just under 6000
12-13-2014, 11:01 PM
#21
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From all the past history on the Turbo models ever built by Porsche, two models come to mind as dissapoinments . The 996 turbo and the slant nose turbo. All the rest have been very collectible. The 996 turbo is a great machine as well as the slant nose, but it's like classical music. Classical music, you can listen to it, sounds lovely and very passionate. After a couple of tracks, ok next. That's how I feel about it. All the rest of the turbo iterations, like opera!
C
Mine
Last edited by TT Surgeon; 12-17-2014 at 01:30 AM.
12-14-2014, 10:58 AM
#24
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Total worldwide production (manual, tiptronic - PDK) :
997/1 Turbo
15.626 Coupé - 6.099 Cabrio
997/2 Turbo
3.301 Coupé - 1.752 Cabrio
997 turbo S
3095 coupe - 2055 Cabrio
Source :
http://www.motorbuch-versand.de/prod...1_Porsche.html
About the author:
Marc Bongers is a German Porsche historian who spent many years employed by Porsche in the factory archive at Zuffenhausen. The book has been compiled with Porsche’s blessing.
Coupe manual 997/1 production around 35% of total production = +/- 5500
Coupe manual 997/2 production around 15% of total production = +/- 500
(manual % is not confirmed by Porsche but most use the 30 to 40 percentage for 997/1 and 10 to 20% for 997/2)
For reference 993 turbo worldwide production : just under 6000
997/1 Turbo
15.626 Coupé - 6.099 Cabrio
997/2 Turbo
3.301 Coupé - 1.752 Cabrio
997 turbo S
3095 coupe - 2055 Cabrio
Source :
http://www.motorbuch-versand.de/prod...1_Porsche.html
About the author:
Marc Bongers is a German Porsche historian who spent many years employed by Porsche in the factory archive at Zuffenhausen. The book has been compiled with Porsche’s blessing.
Coupe manual 997/1 production around 35% of total production = +/- 5500
Coupe manual 997/2 production around 15% of total production = +/- 500
(manual % is not confirmed by Porsche but most use the 30 to 40 percentage for 997/1 and 10 to 20% for 997/2)
For reference 993 turbo worldwide production : just under 6000
As an aside, in Porsche: Data Book, Bongers offers production numbers for the 993 Turbo--including 14 1995 Turbo Cabriolets and 345 Turbo S cars but excluding 1995-1998 Turbo coupes optioned with performance kits--which exceed 6,300. No figures for the performance kit cars are given. Does Bongers' Porsche: Serienfahrzeuge und Sportwagen seit 1948 provide revised worldwide production numbers for the 993 Turbo?
Moreover, Andreas Gabriel, in his Porsche 911 Turbo: Air Cooled Years, 1975-1998, provides VIN-based production numbers which show that worldwide 993 Turbo production slightly exceeded 6,500 units. The figures in Gabriel's book were compiled by Norbert Franz, who maintains the Turbo-Look Register (http://www.turbo-look.de/index-en.php).
12-14-2014, 11:30 AM
#25
Three Wheelin'
I only used the '993 turbo' production number to put the '997/1 manual' in perspective as some keep coming back saying 'too many' have been made to be collectible.
Direct comparison 993 turbo = 997/1 turbo manual shows a different story.
In this case there is no use to list all the 'extra' 993 produced.
It's all about the 997 turbo
Direct comparison 993 turbo = 997/1 turbo manual shows a different story.
In this case there is no use to list all the 'extra' 993 produced.
It's all about the 997 turbo
12-14-2014, 01:15 PM
#26
Instructor
European 'Collectors' (those that drive up the prices) are always looking for the garage queen with low miles. Same as US. The higher the mileage the lower the price.
Euro folk only shop in America if there is no or very little supply in EU anymore. I do not think a US spec 997 turbo will increase in value because of Europe.
Euro folk only shop in America if there is no or very little supply in EU anymore. I do not think a US spec 997 turbo will increase in value because of Europe.
Thank you for posting the global production numbers too, especially as it relates to the 993 turbo. It helps to put the question of potential 997tt appreciation values into perspective.
12-14-2014, 05:39 PM
#27
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I only used the '993 turbo' production number to put the '997/1 manual' in perspective as some keep coming back saying 'too many' have been made to be collectible.
Direct comparison 993 turbo = 997/1 turbo manual shows a different story.
In this case there is no use to list all the 'extra' 993 produced.
It's all about the 997 turbo
Direct comparison 993 turbo = 997/1 turbo manual shows a different story.
In this case there is no use to list all the 'extra' 993 produced.
It's all about the 997 turbo
You're hedging about your intentions in excluding some 993 Turbos from 993 Turbo total production numbers. Including the 14 1995 993 Turbo Cabriolets and the 345 993 Turbo S cars in the 993 Turbo production numbers raises the 993 production tally and enhances the rationale for the conclusion that 997.1 Turbos with manual transmissions are rarer than 993 Turbos. The subsequent jump to the additional conclusion that 997.1 Turbos with manual transmissions will retain in the future the highest values of all 997 Turbos is, then, easier to make.
And I'll ask you again: does Bongers' Porsche: Serienfahrzeuge und Sportwagen seit 1948 revise the 993 Turbo worldwide production numbers that he offered in his 2006 book?
The "different story" that you're crafting isn't "all about the 997 turbo"; rather, it's about the comparison that you're making, the evidence that you're offering, and the conclusions that you're trying to support.
12-14-2014, 06:21 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Your unconfirmed estimates of production numbers for manual transmission 997.1 Turbos confirm your view that those cars were produced in limited numbers--numbers which are lower than the actual worldwide total production numbers for the 993 Turbo. Your implicit conclusion, then, is conditional: if 993 Turbos currently command high prices, in the future 997.1 Turbos will command high prices. Your projection is interesting but unverifiable.
You're hedging about your intentions in excluding some 993 Turbos from 993 Turbo total production numbers. Including the 14 1995 993 Turbo Cabriolets and the 345 993 Turbo S cars in the 993 Turbo production numbers raises the 993 production tally and enhances the rationale for the conclusion that 997.1 Turbos with manual transmissions are rarer than 993 Turbos. The subsequent jump to the additional conclusion that 997.1 Turbos with manual transmissions will retain in the future the highest values of all 997 Turbos is, then, easier to make.
And I'll ask you again: does Bongers' Porsche: Serienfahrzeuge und Sportwagen seit 1948 revise the 993 Turbo worldwide production numbers that he offered in his 2006 book?
The "different story" that you're crafting isn't "all about the 997 turbo"; rather, it's about the comparison that you're making, the evidence that you're offering, and the conclusions that you're trying to support.
You're hedging about your intentions in excluding some 993 Turbos from 993 Turbo total production numbers. Including the 14 1995 993 Turbo Cabriolets and the 345 993 Turbo S cars in the 993 Turbo production numbers raises the 993 production tally and enhances the rationale for the conclusion that 997.1 Turbos with manual transmissions are rarer than 993 Turbos. The subsequent jump to the additional conclusion that 997.1 Turbos with manual transmissions will retain in the future the highest values of all 997 Turbos is, then, easier to make.
And I'll ask you again: does Bongers' Porsche: Serienfahrzeuge und Sportwagen seit 1948 revise the 993 Turbo worldwide production numbers that he offered in his 2006 book?
The "different story" that you're crafting isn't "all about the 997 turbo"; rather, it's about the comparison that you're making, the evidence that you're offering, and the conclusions that you're trying to support.
12-15-2014, 02:00 AM
#29
Pro
European 'Collectors' (those that drive up the prices) are always looking for the garage queen with low miles. Same as US. The higher the mileage the lower the price.
Euro folk only shop in America if there is no or very little supply in EU anymore. I do not think a US spec 997 turbo will increase in value because of Europe.
Not true , look at the total numbers produced. 35 to 40% of those are manuals. Than deduct cabrio's. The amount of manual coupe's produced are far from 'too many'.
One should deduct the cabrio for a fair comparison to 993 turbo which of course was never offered in a cabrio.
In general a coupe buyer will not be interested in a convertible. And vice versa
It is the last manual turbo so that alone will be a great incentive for people to buy. Also very few manuals (less than 15%?) have been made in DFI.
But the most desirable by far will be the 2009.
Than the 07-08 followed closely by the DFI manual.
All manual 997 turbo's will become collectible sooner than later.
A lot will depend on how it is specced. A full option, PCCB and LSD equipped '08 can be more desirable than a base '09.
As a side note. I own a 2008 , I bought it because it was the perfect car to me. The right color combo with all the right options. However, I started my search for a 2009 only, but simply could not find what I wanted in that model year. I am talking 4 years ago. I do not regret 'settling' for a 2008 at all. But I know that in the long run my car will be worth considerably less than a '09.
I still keep an eye out for 'my perfect' 09 but so far nothing has turned up.
Euro folk only shop in America if there is no or very little supply in EU anymore. I do not think a US spec 997 turbo will increase in value because of Europe.
Not true , look at the total numbers produced. 35 to 40% of those are manuals. Than deduct cabrio's. The amount of manual coupe's produced are far from 'too many'.
One should deduct the cabrio for a fair comparison to 993 turbo which of course was never offered in a cabrio.
In general a coupe buyer will not be interested in a convertible. And vice versa
It is the last manual turbo so that alone will be a great incentive for people to buy. Also very few manuals (less than 15%?) have been made in DFI.
But the most desirable by far will be the 2009.
Than the 07-08 followed closely by the DFI manual.
All manual 997 turbo's will become collectible sooner than later.
A lot will depend on how it is specced. A full option, PCCB and LSD equipped '08 can be more desirable than a base '09.
As a side note. I own a 2008 , I bought it because it was the perfect car to me. The right color combo with all the right options. However, I started my search for a 2009 only, but simply could not find what I wanted in that model year. I am talking 4 years ago. I do not regret 'settling' for a 2008 at all. But I know that in the long run my car will be worth considerably less than a '09.
I still keep an eye out for 'my perfect' 09 but so far nothing has turned up.
12-15-2014, 03:59 PM
#30
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I just picked up a Cayenne S, the dealer was all over me to sell them my 997TT, they have buyers in Germany looking constantly. The German buyers know they are dealing with the last of the real dry sump 6 speed cars, low milage well cared cars are most desired, these beasts will not come this way ever again.