JoeFromPA

Hi all,

I've been a BMW and Porsche fan for a long time. My father gave me his '99 Boxster a few years back which I owned and enjoyed before selling and going into an e39 m5, which I currently own.

I've been thinking of buying into the new f80 m3 that is coming out this summer. It's about $65k and offers a very nice all around package.

However, I've recently gotten the bug do a "once in a lifetime" thing and go for a daily driven 911 turbo in Pennsylvania. I would have alternate transport for the snowiest of days, and would run winter rubber and wheels 5 months a year. 15k miles a year, lot of highway. Maybe an occasional HPDE (never been, know this isn't a dedicated track car)

Though I am well off financially, it's mainly due to job success the past few years. I'm in my early 30s and have an 18 month old son. I've put enough away for him for college and am saving lots to hopefully retire early in life and enjoy traveling with my wife in our 50s.

I share this because finances matter to me - and I'm trying to balance my financial decision-making with my passion for fine automotives. So I've tried to calculate out the ownership costs of a 997.1 turbo and I'm hoping the board can offer their insights into this. These are estimated ownership costs over a 5 year period.

Buying price: $60k for a 2007-2008 model with 50k miles on it (assume purchase mid-2014 from a private seller)

Selling Price in 2019: $35k with 125k miles on it.

Depreciation: $25k

Maintenance costs:

-5 oil changes at $100 per change (DIY) = $500
- 3 sets of tires at $1300 = $3900
-2 spark plug and air filter changes = $1600 at indy
-2 brake fluid changes (DIY) = $50
-1 steering fluid change (DIY) = $30
-1 belt change = $50 (assuming DIY)
-1 clutch = $2000 at indy
-1 change of trans and diff fluids $100 (assuming DIY)

Unexpected repair costs:

Edited: Budgeting $500k/year for hoses, rubber, miscellaneous electric

So totaling this:
$25k for depreciation over 5 years
$8,230 for maintenance
$2500k for miscellaneous repairs on a ~7-10 year old Porsche

Total = $36k
Total costs = about $7,000 per year

I'm not taking into account insurance or gas because it's just the reality of the car.

By comparison, if I were to go with a brand new m3 I'd be looking at a pretty similar level of ownership cost - albeit with an easier ownership experience. However, it's only about $3-4k/year more than, say, a new Honda Accord over a similar length of time.

I just wanted to get a sense from this forum if I'm looking at this right financially. I haven't decided what I'm willing to sink into such an ownership experience yet and what it's worth to me.

Thanks for your time and help,
Joe

MK_TT

I think your high on the 1k per year miscellaneous repairs, everything else seems fine. There are plenty of people who DD their turbos in the northeast

I would sell the car before the 100k mark.

I owned a 996tt over the course of 3 years and had less then 1k in miscellaneous repairs, granted the car had 20k miles on it.

The mods are what gets really expensive

JoeFromPA

Thanks and good to hear. Sell before 100k? Because of depreciation at that time?

JoeFromPA

btw, I TEND to be a "stay stock, stay happy" type of guy - besides anticipating a GIAC or FVD tune with no other mods.

dml

Ditto. I has an e39 M5 bought new, and had 8 separate repairs on it. Not keen on BMW any more.

I jumped into a 4 year old 996 TT, kept it for another 4 years and only repairs were tires, battery,
and windshield wipers.

UT_farhan

Joe,

Have you looked or done the math on a CPO car from the dealership? The price might be higher up front, but should have fewer miles which may mean you can sell for more money in 2019. The reason I say to look at it is that with CPO, depending on the mileage, the dealership will be required to do the big maintenance if its within range. For example, I bought a CPO that had 35K miles and the dealer was telling me they could do the 36K mile maintenance for me for and additional $2K. However I knew that as part of the CPO'ing process, they had to do it anyways, so i declined that option, and of course they had to end up doing it for free. Also, with CPO, it'll cut down on maintenance costs for you. My TMPS batteries went out recently and it was all covered for free. If it wasn't, it would've been an easy $1200+ expense from the dealership. Just something to think about.

JoeFromPA

Thanks and honestly, no, I didn't realize a 2007-2008 model would still be offered as a CPO vehicle at this stage. I know CPO normally follows up to 6 years since original in-service date - I see now Porsche can also CPO vehicles beyond that for an additional 2 years, 50k miles.

I might consider such a vehicle should it come up and be within my target range - how likely is that to be on a vehicle this age?

JoeFromPA

Hehehe, I put 25k miles on my e39 m5 in about 18 months of ownership. It needed a whole new front suspension and outer and inner tie rods (and idler arm), 3 wheel speed sensors failed, fuel pump fuse and fuel pump relay failed (separately, leaving me stranded both times until I figured it out)...

But honestly, on a 13 year old M vehicle it's been pretty good to me. I replaced the wheel speed sensors and fuel pump issues myself. Suspension work was done by an Indy.

UT_farhan

PM Sent

JoeFromPA

Not yet received.

Also I'm going to edit my original post to back down the unexpected repair cost to $500/year

ilko

$500/year is too low. A few examples:

- The clutch estimate is low at $2000. More like $3000-3500.
- Your rear spoiler goes and you're in for a $2000+ repair.
- One of your coolant hoses goes, there's another $2000 to fix it right.
- Front radiators are probably going to expire at some point too.
- As will the clutch slave cylinder, and probably more than once.
- Brake rotors and pads you'll probably have to do twice (30K miles per set).
- With low profile tires and large wheels in the North East you can count on bubbles, bent rims, etc.
- Also wheel bearings, control arms, etc, etc.

Those are all wear items that will give up the ghost sooner or later and since you are planning on putting that many miles on it you need to budget for those repairs.

IMO even $1000 is on the conservative side. These are reliable cars but they are far from bullet proof.

Not trying to scare you and I applaud you for doing this the smart way trying to budget in advance, but there is really no way of knowing what will go and when.

Hope this helps.

JoeFromPA

Darn, I did forget rotors and pads. I'll figure $700 for pads and rotors based upon what I can see, and DIY.

On the clutch: I see clutch kits from PP for ~$800-900. I'm assuming a competent Indy can do it in 5-8 hours. Where's the $3k+ coming from?

ilko

The flywheel. And it's more than an 8 hour job.

JoeFromPA

Ah, I'm surprised. Was reading about how dropping the engines on these guys (and reinstalling them) was just a ~2 hour job given the right equipment - assumed disconnecting the trans wasn't too much more work than any normal setup given the good access that would provide.

With the flywheel, yeah, I can see how $3k is the right price. Is the flywheel an automatic replacement with clutch job or a "inspect the surface and measure the dual-mass deflection" job?

Guess with the engine out, it's a "why not replace the flywheel since we're here" thing most likely.

ilko

Once you disconnect the transmission and associated control arms to drop it you will need an alignment. I've factored that in.

I know of 2 shops in the US that offer to resurface a 997TT flywheel and it would depend on its condition. The vast majority will not even consider it.