997 turbo as a daily driver and estimated ownership costs
02-12-2014, 09:27 AM
#46
Three Wheelin'
My kids are also off to a great start but I was fortunate they received full ride scholarships and I didn't have any out-of-pocket expenses. I also tell them that I'm spending their inheritance and the last check I wrote before I died is going to bounce! But, I also enjoyed my cars while they were growing up and still do - it drives my wife crazy! Never owned a POS and never will.
BTW, after two years of TT ownership I've only had a Tip trans oil leak that was covered under my after market warranty. There is also a 997.1 recall for the coolant pipe seal that is covered by Porsche. My car has been rock solid to-date and like the other poster said much more reliable than my Cayenne. I too owned an 03 E39 M5 and wish I still had it. They are a timeless classic. Find, buy, drive and enjoy your 997.1 and don't worry so much about the $$$$, I don't.
BTW, after two years of TT ownership I've only had a Tip trans oil leak that was covered under my after market warranty. There is also a 997.1 recall for the coolant pipe seal that is covered by Porsche. My car has been rock solid to-date and like the other poster said much more reliable than my Cayenne. I too owned an 03 E39 M5 and wish I still had it. They are a timeless classic. Find, buy, drive and enjoy your 997.1 and don't worry so much about the $$$$, I don't.
02-12-2014, 11:08 AM
#47
All,
Thanks so much for your input. A few minor things and then a decision I somewhat reached last night:
I'm not basing the depreciation off of a 996 TT. The 996, as a whole, has been the fastest depreciating 911 of all time, as are the rest of the 996 series (except perhaps the GT3).
However, I think the 997 TT is going to stay above $30k indefinitely if in good condition with full records. The last Mezger engine twin turbo, the most advanced platform it was put in, a very reliable platform thus far, and a desirable platform....
These things in a Porsche mean good resale value, even as mileage starts to skyrocket. Even though I put depreciation to $35k with 125k miles, I actually think the car will sell for more than that. P-car-people are big into cars with a certain special history, especially racing history, and the last of the turbo mezger engines I expect to command a premium somewhere between the premium a G50 commands and a 993 commands (not as low as the g50 premium, not as a high as the 993 premium).
...
I'm doing the spreadsheet analysis because that's what I do to rationalize decisions. The best laid plan falls apart once reality hits, and I know that. That's ok.
...
I went to the Philly Car Show last night. They had a 997 turbo there and a brand new BMW m3.
Ultimately, I think right now I'm going to go the m3 route. It should offer NEARLY the punch of the 997 turbo (moreso at low-end, since it's torque comes on lower and it's a higher compression engine in a modestly lighter chassis and doesn't suffer from AWD parasitic loss either). And it's ultimately going to offer a easier ownership experience as a new car.
To the point of a lot of the input I received, I ultimately found myself uncomfortable with the idea of daily driving the 997 turbo. Though I've had a lot of recent job success/income increase, it's not yet stable or indefinitely reliable - I'm not a physician or partner'd lawyer or similarly expected stable-high income role.
The 997 also reflected a certain reality that would cause me to be more uncomfortable, more regularly. It's ride height, it's susceptibility to potholes, etc.
These things were not deal-breakers. I was willing to deal with them for the joy of ownership. But ultimately I saw the new m3 last night and had to ask myself what I'd be trading to own an ~8 year old 911 turbo vs. a brand new m3.
And what it came down to for me was I'd enjoy the beauty of the Porsche and the punch of the turbo. But I no longer felt that it was a must have for me for the sacrifices made.
This may change in the next year. I might go drive an m3 and not like it, or I might finally find a local 911 turbo to drive and I might fall in love.
However, I think I'm going to revisit this in the future rather than force it now.
Thank you everyone for your time and consideration and input.
Thanks so much for your input. A few minor things and then a decision I somewhat reached last night:
I'm not basing the depreciation off of a 996 TT. The 996, as a whole, has been the fastest depreciating 911 of all time, as are the rest of the 996 series (except perhaps the GT3).
However, I think the 997 TT is going to stay above $30k indefinitely if in good condition with full records. The last Mezger engine twin turbo, the most advanced platform it was put in, a very reliable platform thus far, and a desirable platform....
These things in a Porsche mean good resale value, even as mileage starts to skyrocket. Even though I put depreciation to $35k with 125k miles, I actually think the car will sell for more than that. P-car-people are big into cars with a certain special history, especially racing history, and the last of the turbo mezger engines I expect to command a premium somewhere between the premium a G50 commands and a 993 commands (not as low as the g50 premium, not as a high as the 993 premium).
...
I'm doing the spreadsheet analysis because that's what I do to rationalize decisions. The best laid plan falls apart once reality hits, and I know that. That's ok.
...
I went to the Philly Car Show last night. They had a 997 turbo there and a brand new BMW m3.
Ultimately, I think right now I'm going to go the m3 route. It should offer NEARLY the punch of the 997 turbo (moreso at low-end, since it's torque comes on lower and it's a higher compression engine in a modestly lighter chassis and doesn't suffer from AWD parasitic loss either). And it's ultimately going to offer a easier ownership experience as a new car.
To the point of a lot of the input I received, I ultimately found myself uncomfortable with the idea of daily driving the 997 turbo. Though I've had a lot of recent job success/income increase, it's not yet stable or indefinitely reliable - I'm not a physician or partner'd lawyer or similarly expected stable-high income role.
The 997 also reflected a certain reality that would cause me to be more uncomfortable, more regularly. It's ride height, it's susceptibility to potholes, etc.
These things were not deal-breakers. I was willing to deal with them for the joy of ownership. But ultimately I saw the new m3 last night and had to ask myself what I'd be trading to own an ~8 year old 911 turbo vs. a brand new m3.
And what it came down to for me was I'd enjoy the beauty of the Porsche and the punch of the turbo. But I no longer felt that it was a must have for me for the sacrifices made.
This may change in the next year. I might go drive an m3 and not like it, or I might finally find a local 911 turbo to drive and I might fall in love.
However, I think I'm going to revisit this in the future rather than force it now.
Thank you everyone for your time and consideration and input.
02-12-2014, 11:29 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
I think you can have your cake and eat it too.
1. Budget $40K for an air cooled Pcar so you can enjoy the Pcar experience while not taking any depreciation. Just maintenance and upkeep.
2. Buy a CPO 335 or S4 to daily and have the option to drive the Pcar on nice days.
Depreciation will only be on the 335 or S4 and you can always get your money back on an air cooled Pcar. I have the BMW bought new and still keep it around for the train station and going into NYC. I don't care if it disappears. It would only suck when I wait for car service to take me home.
1. Budget $40K for an air cooled Pcar so you can enjoy the Pcar experience while not taking any depreciation. Just maintenance and upkeep.
2. Buy a CPO 335 or S4 to daily and have the option to drive the Pcar on nice days.
Depreciation will only be on the 335 or S4 and you can always get your money back on an air cooled Pcar. I have the BMW bought new and still keep it around for the train station and going into NYC. I don't care if it disappears. It would only suck when I wait for car service to take me home.
02-12-2014, 01:13 PM
#49
Three Wheelin'
I read most of this thread becuase I'm also looking to buy a 997.1 turbo becuase I want one and lastly becuase I think it will lose less value than a new car. My situation is different as I won't be daily driving the car because I don't drive to work.
Off topic, $190k seems low for college education in 15 years or so. Private school today costs something like $240k and tuition has been rising way ahead of inflation. Are you just having one kid?
Lastly, I saw the new M3 Sedan at my autoshow and it was sick. It made me think of going that route. I've been a big BMW fan forever and never owned a new car.
Off topic, $190k seems low for college education in 15 years or so. Private school today costs something like $240k and tuition has been rising way ahead of inflation. Are you just having one kid?
Lastly, I saw the new M3 Sedan at my autoshow and it was sick. It made me think of going that route. I've been a big BMW fan forever and never owned a new car.
02-12-2014, 01:13 PM
#50
I think you can have your cake and eat it too.
1. Budget $40K for an air cooled Pcar so you can enjoy the Pcar experience while not taking any depreciation. Just maintenance and upkeep.
2. Buy a CPO 335 or S4 to daily and have the option to drive the Pcar on nice days.
Depreciation will only be on the 335 or S4 and you can always get your money back on an air cooled Pcar. I have the BMW bought new and still keep it around for the train station and going into NYC. I don't care if it disappears. It would only suck when I wait for car service to take me home.
1. Budget $40K for an air cooled Pcar so you can enjoy the Pcar experience while not taking any depreciation. Just maintenance and upkeep.
2. Buy a CPO 335 or S4 to daily and have the option to drive the Pcar on nice days.
Depreciation will only be on the 335 or S4 and you can always get your money back on an air cooled Pcar. I have the BMW bought new and still keep it around for the train station and going into NYC. I don't care if it disappears. It would only suck when I wait for car service to take me home.
02-12-2014, 01:59 PM
#51
However, I think the 997 TT is going to stay above $30k indefinitely if in good condition with full records. The last Mezger engine twin turbo, the most advanced platform it was put in, a very reliable platform thus far, and a desirable platform....
30k your nuts, i dont think we will see them even go below 50k. Look at the 996TT(01) prices on Ebay.
IIts too good of a car and the 991TT at 200k is helping the matter. Time will tell
30k your nuts, i dont think we will see them even go below 50k. Look at the 996TT(01) prices on Ebay.
IIts too good of a car and the 991TT at 200k is helping the matter. Time will tell
02-12-2014, 02:50 PM
#52
At over 100k miles, I think it'll be stretched to stay above 50k in the next 5-6 years. Maybe long term though.
02-12-2014, 03:02 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
not sure the 997tt will see 30k. 996TT cars were down in the 30-35k area during the financial crisis but have since bounced back into the 40's (ones with 100k+ miles are in the low 30's)
I have put 15k on my turbo over the last 2 years and I think I could sell it for the same price I paid for it !
Better than getting a CPO'd 335i coupe for sure.
My estimate was that my 02 996TT would be worth ~33k in 2017 with 70k miles. If it is any higher than that it will be because the USD is going to ****.
I have put 15k on my turbo over the last 2 years and I think I could sell it for the same price I paid for it !
Better than getting a CPO'd 335i coupe for sure.
My estimate was that my 02 996TT would be worth ~33k in 2017 with 70k miles. If it is any higher than that it will be because the USD is going to ****.
02-12-2014, 03:19 PM
#54
I read most of this thread becuase I'm also looking to buy a 997.1 turbo becuase I want one and lastly becuase I think it will lose less value than a new car. My situation is different as I won't be daily driving the car because I don't drive to work.
Off topic, $190k seems low for college education in 15 years or so. Private school today costs something like $240k and tuition has been rising way ahead of inflation. Are you just having one kid?
Lastly, I saw the new M3 Sedan at my autoshow and it was sick. It made me think of going that route. I've been a big BMW fan forever and never owned a new car.
Off topic, $190k seems low for college education in 15 years or so. Private school today costs something like $240k and tuition has been rising way ahead of inflation. Are you just having one kid?
Lastly, I saw the new M3 Sedan at my autoshow and it was sick. It made me think of going that route. I've been a big BMW fan forever and never owned a new car.
Regarding $190k for college education - that bubble has reached near maximal capacity and I don't expect inflation rates to continue like they have for another 16 years. I also stated earlier that I feel a private university for the bachelors is mostly a waste; better to do the 4-year program at a good state or local university at 25% of the cost and then do a 2 year master's at a private school. Usually the master's program is comparatively inexpensive anyway.
02-12-2014, 03:54 PM
#55
Race Car
[QUOTE="3Series;11128223"] Off topic, $190k seems low for college education in 15 years or so. Private school today costs something like $240k and tuition has been rising way ahead of inflation. /QUOTE]
190k may be way too much in 15 years. With the availability of extremely high quality online education and it's rate of acceptance and growth, pricing will no longer be tied to increasingly costly brick and mortar facilities by that time. A quality undergrad will be back closer to 20-30k.
190k may be way too much in 15 years. With the availability of extremely high quality online education and it's rate of acceptance and growth, pricing will no longer be tied to increasingly costly brick and mortar facilities by that time. A quality undergrad will be back closer to 20-30k.
02-12-2014, 04:28 PM
#56
Agent Orange
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
190k may be way too much in 15 years. With the availability of extremely high quality online education and it's rate of acceptance and growth, pricing will no longer be tied to increasingly costly brick and mortar facilities by that time. A quality undergrad will be back closer to 20-30k.
Now a pre-school for my 4-year-old is asking us for more. And that's not even for a full year!
02-12-2014, 04:44 PM
#57
Race Car
Totally OT, wife informed me last night that our school district that is the "best" in state and that we moved for 2 years ago teaches "same sex" sex eduction in 7th and 8th grade. Beings that she comes from a strong southern baptist background, I was told to prepare for 2 private school payments next year. And all I could think was crap, I could get a 991TTS for what 6 years of private school costs!
02-12-2014, 06:06 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
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Totally OT, wife informed me last night that our school district that is the "best" in state and that we moved for 2 years ago teaches "same sex" sex eduction in 7th and 8th grade. Beings that she comes from a strong southern baptist background, I was told to prepare for 2 private school payments next year. And all I could think was crap, I could get a 991TTS for what 6 years of private school costs!
Totally OT, wife informed me last night that our school district that is the "best" in state and that we moved for 2 years ago teaches "same sex" sex eduction in 7th and 8th grade. Beings that she comes from a strong southern baptist background, I was told to prepare for 2 private school payments next year. And all I could think was crap, I could get a 991TTS for what 6 years of private school costs!
