phillipj

Drive a TT with a tune and nn exhaust and drive a TT with just a tune.. I believe your doubts may be unjustified..

phillipj

How are we ever going to get in fresh views on this forum? Anytime an individual even dares suggest there is another option to a TT exhaust besides the Europipe some folks here go after them like Heretics!

What is the problem? I guess if it's not what you have on your car it must be crap.. Or if it's not your taste it must be crap.. I believe even EP would admit there are other good quality sytems on the market to choose from.

We get an individual on here that actually explains how his exhaust is designed and you guys rip him apart. It's fine if you don't buy his products but is it really neccessary to question his credibilty? Or his motives?

Man what happened to an OPEN forum?.. Doesn't seem to exist on this subject..

It's quite dissapointing...

kitwetzler

I don't know if you're read the entire thread, but Kline began talking about their system being *better* than the other systems out there, despite using piping of smaller diameter and making dyno claims that were not backed up - we are led to believe that they made 42 whp from merely an exhaust swap?

I'm not an expert in thermodynamics or flow dynamics, but I have tried a lot of exhausts on my car. The Europipe is the best for my needs right now, but even I admit that there are other quality products out there, especially if you want a higher pitched exhaust note. Kline's system does use a nice x-pipe, and is an interesting design, but I question the use of smaller than stock piping.

strato58

I think he is not doubting the tune but rather the high hp claims for the exhausts..are they overrated? i have no idea.

TT-911

Not true Phillip, a forum is for private individuals to talk about and share experiences and so much more.
But when a forum is used to promote ones business than that is different. Imagine how you would feel being a paying sponsor selling exhausts and a competitor starts promoting his product out of the blue and at the same time discredits all other vendors by saying they make something that is not 'scientifically' working. It is simply not fair. But Kline company is going to become a sponsor he told me (by pm). That I welcome because it is the right thing to do. Either every vendor can make free publicity or none. That is the way I see it.

TT-911

Not an individual ! A COMPANY promoting its very own product!
Do you really expect him to write anything else but 'our product is heaven'.
I don't and neither should you, with all due respect.

When the reviews will come from INDIVIDUALS it'll be totally different and I hope for Kline they will be as favorable as the ones Europipe is getting. But until than I consider this company's remarks as just trying to score some sales. And again, nothing wrong with that but than this company should become a sponsor.

You always talk bad about Vivid, imagine them promoting this new exhaust with the same marketing talk. Would your reaction be the same ?

99three

Competition is healthy. Let Kline state what they want just as other companies have done. In the end it will be the consumer who will dictate if the exhaust will be successful or not. No need to flame an individual or company for marketing their products regardless of verbiage.
Denis, are you the RL membership cop???

speed21

[quote=phillipj;9974469]Sheesh. You really need to go and read the thread Phillip before saying anthing else.

I wouldn't refer to it as a problem at all. Asking for Chris to answer for his large diameter EP cat negative flow claim... along with that other palaver behind his ommision of heat shields, the 2.5 pipe sizes being better than 3" was justified in every sense. I mean if you feel ok about a vendor comming on spruiking his own wares under the auspices of a general member, using fancy marketing techno talk amongst guys that probably wouldn't be able to tell whether it's a load of BS or not, whilst at the same time casting dispersions over competitors well recognised achievements,...yet was not prepared to give any plausible answers when asked about those claims, well....need i say more?

I thought RL was a valuable reference site for 997tt owners wanting quailty information so they can make good purchasing decisions. But Phillip if you want relevent information supressed in favor of not upsetting someone and allowing BS and inuendo to thrive then I can't be part of that equation.

Also, If you've got something to throw at me over any of my choices, put it out there please. I can take it. I've certainly made my fair share of costly mistakes and am happy to admit it for the benefit of other members. You won't find me saying something is flawless when it really isn't just because I was silly enough to get conned into buying it and, paying good money for it. Yes, we all make mistakes but how many can own up to them? Humility can be elusive for some. The main thing is not to repeat mistakes or, more importantly not have others follow you off the same precipice you chose again because you couldnt own up to your own bad decisions or, face the reality that what you have is second best to the next persons or, is total rubbish full stop. So I make no bones about the EP as being a top shelf system and, there are a hell of a lot of users that sing that same song from ist hand experience. So are EP owners to be kicked for that? And should manufacturers and vendors be given a free hand to say whatever they want to get sales? I don't think so. We need to keep RL as clear of BS as possible imo.

Frankly I doubt they could be bothered actually. From what I know of them they are simply far too busy filling orders and R and D'ing new product, focusing purely on what they are doing rather than wasting time trying to drum up business on internet forums making fanciful claims whilst casting dispersions over the competition in the process. But by all means feel free to ask them if you like....

Jesus....maybe i've been missing something....

OK. As you clearly can't have read the thread, let's start with Kline saying his system is better than anyone elses on the market/planet, (and i mean EVERYONES!) and his guys are even smarter than Porsches own team of experts and all other OEMs and exhaust fabricaters that apparently all live in a world of mistakes errors and blunders.

Then let's go to the claim that EP's large Diameter 100 cel cats are counterproductive to flow..(i mean no need to back that up right?) and, then let's go to the bit about how this Kline exhaust is so advanced it works like a refrigerator unit....drawing all the heat from the surrounds of the car to keep itself so cool it doesn't need any heat shielding. I guess let's not think too much about the fact that the "surrounds" of the exhaust are actually cooler than the exhaust itself because that's not really relevant right?..... but hey, let's overlook all that Phillip because Klines Newton, SHM, Murphy and every other genuis born on the planet's theory says so. I mean omitting the heat shielding couldn't possibly have anything to do with manufacturing costs or profits. Hell no!!!

Then let's drift over to the claim of the 2.5" pipe being better flowing than the 3". I mean a guy's got a right to say anything he wants to us Rennlisters in a bid to sell his product without having to back it up right. I mean it does makes 42 HP over stock too......yep, sounds like another stretch i know but ok lets leave that one for a rainy day LOL.

Freedom of speech is a wonderfull thing Phillip. It seems here on Rennlist if you want to sell something you can basically say anything you want without any need to have anyone question you or have you qualify anything you've said, or else there is a fashion Policeman that comes out and starts crying foul.

Umm. What's there to be dissapointed about again?

Phillip. To have an open forum you've got to be able to be OPEN....and that means to criticism as well as praise. This Forum is still open.....but it seems you want censorship on things you don't like to hear or agree with. Seems a little selfish...

speed21

Dont worry you're not alone. I didn't get what he meant either. Would like to know though.

Hey Phillip what did you mean? Is it the tune, exhaust, HP claims?

TT-911

Rennlist requires sponsorship to promote ones product/company. They got a message from one of the administrators stating that after the first promo post.
The rules should be equal for everyone, don't you agree ? I simply pointed that out because I thought it was relevant reading Phillip's disappointment.

Which 'other companies' do you mean btw ? In all the years I have been a member I have never noticed vendors using the forum as a marketing tool beside the ones that sponsor. In fact I recall several promo posts being removed as it is against Rennlist policy.


I see were this is coming from, you are the 'PM me' guy and I must have insulted you. Sorry about that. My post was not meant to insult. It was made in jest. Again sorry !

But answering your question, no I am not. I have, like many, worked hard building up a business and strongly believe that rules should apply to everyone. Otherwise it is/becomes unfair competition.
I hope you agree with this even if you dislike me or my post(s).

Zeus993

1+ Phillip. The guy seems passionate about his product (rare these days) and it is easy to cross the line and perhaps even slightly dis another product but I agree - let the guy have his opinion. I've learned more about the physics of turbos and exhausts on this thread than ever before. Thanks Christiaony (now pony up for your Sponsorship STAT).

I swear half of us on these forums are bored and should actually go and do something meaning full in life such as helping people in disaster areas etc... Then we wouldn't be so bloody critical of the opinions of others. Trust me - it would change your life. My 2 cents CND rant (mini).

Remember - opinions are like certain anatomical parts - everyone has one.

phillipj

[QUOTE=Zeus993;9975914]1+ Phillip. The guy seems passionate about his product (rare these days) and it is easy to cross the line and perhaps even slightly dis another product but I agree - let the guy have his opinion. I've learned more about the physics of turbos and exhausts on this thread than ever before. Thanks Christiaony (now pony up for your Sponsorship STAT).

I swear half of us on these forums are bored and should actually go and do something meaning full in life such as helping people in disaster areas etc... Then we wouldn't be so bloody critical of the opinions of others. Trust me - it would change your life. My 2 cents CND rant (mini).Remember - opinions are like certain anatomical parts - everyone has one.[/QUO

Thanks for that Zues

speed21

[quote=phillipj;9976651]LOL! Geez i hope you two realize you both just hung yourselves out to dry with that (hypo)critical and judgemental statement. Ever heard the saying people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones lol.

I thinky you need to edit that remark from "half of us" to "all of us".

Anyway all jokes aside i personally find RL a fun diversion during those moments in the day or evening to mix it up, pass opinion, call it out, offer advice, whatever.....so while i'm sure i could 'personally" be doing "better" things" sometimes i wonder what those "better things" would actually be, or, would i be just staring into oblivion pondering another issue i have on my plate to deal with. Sometimes you need a diversion and RL isn't such a bad one as "some of us here" might make out lol.

Anyway have a great day guys. And I mean that sincerely. Truly.

dianic

Oh wow. I am speechless.
The directness of speed, and his hard questioning in my view never turned rude. As far as I read it was an attack on statements and claims. The style was as always a no bull**** approach. Direct and strong. But that is just Paul's style.

I do however sense, and correct me if I am wrong, that Phillips and Zeus comments were a bit more personal, and to be honest I don't think there is a need for that. These days this place is active because of the new additions to this group of people. We enjoy each others cars, learn from each others opinions and experiences. There is absolutely no point in making any of this personal, especially for the regulars of this forum.

Whether we like it or not, Chris is a vendor to be, taping into the best resource he can. An educated lot of enthusiasts. Note both words. I have always considered this place to be much more of a no b**** forum than the rest... And such posts make that difference in my view.

I could say that Chris wasn't expecting this reception, but I think that we have learnt things from this exchange. Had he tackled the issues sooner and kept the claims lower, then perhaps this wouldn't have escalated to make him disappear.

Keep smiling. This is a nice place to pass our time. Lets keep it active, interesting and polite.

99three

+1 Nice. Help someone or an animal in need. It could put a smile on your mug. Don't let other $hit define your character in life. Enjoy your elections.