Brad Baker

Hey Guys, thanks a lot for all the input. I really appreciate it. I would not have guessed that the mods would hurt the value and reliabilty so much. I've never been interested in them, always preferred stock/orginal. but liked this car. He has the original chip, and said he didn't change rev limits. I would have put the original springs back too. He has all the orig parts. The mods have about 2200 miles on them. Said they could be changed back easily. I'm still a little torn, But will keep looking. Again, I really appreciate everyones experience and knowledge.

TT Surgeon

The chip isn't removable, the ecu is actually overwritten, and that is recorded in the ecu, very easy to determine if an ecu has been manipulated in any way, even after being flashed back to normal. Of all the mods, the ecu is the most troublesome, the most likely o do sustained damage to the engine. The springs are relatively cheap and benign, the exhaust is on the low end price wise...I'd pass.
Or, have the guy price the car accordingly, knock 10k off the price for starters.

Macster

Probably the owner meant was that he has the original chip's flash memory image saved.

Not uncommon to when "reflashing" an Ecu to offer a feature that reads/saves the current image for later restore should it be desired. The special tool I had for my 06 GTO offered this feature though I never had a chance to use it.

Whether or not the restore feature -- if available -- works and if an Ecu so treated is 100% its old self and that this flash image restoration is undetectable or not I don't know.

I agree that the car probably wants to be if not removed outright for further consideration at least placed lower on the list of candidate cars and the OP keep looking for a better example.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Bobby G

Personally, I think the exhaust and suspension are desirable and add value, but this thread is a good indication that many Porsche owners believe otherwise, so keep that in mind as you assess the potential resale of the car.

The suspension and exhaust wouldn't concern me at all if they were installed at a reputable shop and the guy had receipts, etc. I would be a bit concerned about the ECU, but not if I got a thorough PPI to see how it's been driven and had receipts as mentioned above.

Also, many dealers will accommodate and respect the warranty on a car with minor modifications; there are some that will overlook the ECU mod and my understanding is that the dealer can't refuse to warranty the car because of a modification unless they can demonstrate that the modification was the cause of the malfunction. Others with more experience can chime in on that, though.

If you were inclined to do the same type of mods, do a PPI, negotiate, and go for it!

If these are modifications that you would immediately remove and which cause you concern, either PPI the car to see if it passes, buy it, and then sell the modifications (there are plenty of folks who'd buy them off of you for 40% of their sales price) to lower your total cap investment, or simply or walk away and keep looking.

Good luck either way.

Macster

Hard to imagine a dealer overlooking an Ecu mod'd car. My source even gives a procedure for the Porsche tech to determine if the engine Ecu has been tamped with.

The wording is:

Tampering with the DME map data.

Modification to the hardware and software of the DME control module is not allowed. Any alteration in the electronics or software (e.g. in order to improve the engine performance may have various effects, including a change in the premissible values for fuel consumption or exhaust and noise emissions.

Startiing with model year 02 911 Turbo (996) and model year 02 911 (996) you are able to perform a system test to see whether the DME map data has been tampered with.

No longer quoting, my memory is the owners manual, make that the warranty booklet, specifically states only factory parts can be used on the car to maintain any existing new car or extended (CPO) warranty.

The magnuson-moss warranty act allows that a manufactur can put in special conditions as long as the the manufacturer "disclose, fully and conspicuously, in simple and readily understood language, the terms and conditions of the warranty to the extent required by rules of the Federal Trade Commission".

OTOH, another portion states: Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty.

Regardless, I was told -- by an independent body shop owner and not the dealer -- when my car was in for repairs that in order to ensure the car's CPO warranty was not affected all parts used to repair the car had to be supplied by PCNA, ordered/bought through a Porsche dealer, and installed by a qualified technician. Furthermore I had access to some giudelines published by Porsche for its Porsche Approved Collision Repair Centers and it clearly stated that only new factory parts could be used to repair cars.

Failure to do so could result in voiding the warranty. I had no desire to test the warranty act and how Porsche interpreted it. While I might prevail in small claims court the risk of having to deal with this was not worth it. And as I have recently mentioned the transmission in my Turbo was replaced under its CPO warranty. Had that warranty not been in effect I would have been looking at over $10000 repair bill (along with maybe $2K of other warranty covered repairs). IIRC small claims court limits in CA is $7500 so even if I "won" I would still have been out $2500 plus $2000.

Sincerely,

Macster.