FS: 2007 Turbo - 10k Miles - $92k
12-23-2008, 10:00 AM
#16
Old School
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I disagree. That's 30%. You ask someone, no matter how wealthy, to spend 30% more for nearly the same thing and it is certainly not a no-brainer.
12-23-2008, 01:17 PM
#17
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that 3 year old 07 should be selling at $90,000. the pccbs do little for the price of that car-all they give the owner is an expensive repair bill if the brakes fail. at $97,000 for an 07, you have to remember that with a discount, you can buy a brand new 09 with the upgrades (touch screen pcm with xm, bluetooth, etc) for about 30 grand more-not that much for someone looking to spend a hundred grand. these 07 tubo cars have to be priced a bit more realistically-$90,000 would make more sense here. i laugh when i see some of the dealers in nj where i live looking to get 109k for their used 07 turbos-we must also remember that porsche made a ton of 07 turbo coupes, probably close to 2000. they only made 500 or so 08 turbo coupes and even fewer so far 09 coupes. i think the 09 turbo coupes might do relatively well on resale-with the new restrictions on 09 turbos being produced, and with the upgrade in the 09 interior and pcm, the 09 might be a realatively desireable car.
12-25-2008, 02:13 AM
#18
nick-i respect what you are saying, but i gotta disagree with you. i am not that wealthy-a brand new 09 is not nearly the same thing as an 07 that has been used. firstly, a bunch of the 07s that i saw on dealer's lots had uncertain heritage-it looked like some were purchased at auction-1 that i saw was repurchased by porsche from a customer-who knows what happened there. for about $500/month more, i got a brand new car that i can break in right and i can get the new pcm with the bluetooth/xm ipod and the ventilated seats. i think as far as your point, some people might agree with you and some might disagree-i would disagree.
12-25-2008, 06:32 PM
#19
12-25-2008, 08:29 PM
#20
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nick-i respect what you are saying, but i gotta disagree with you. i am not that wealthy-a brand new 09 is not nearly the same thing as an 07 that has been used. firstly, a bunch of the 07s that i saw on dealer's lots had uncertain heritage-it looked like some were purchased at auction-1 that i saw was repurchased by porsche from a customer-who knows what happened there. for about $500/month more, i got a brand new car that i can break in right and i can get the new pcm with the bluetooth/xm ipod and the ventilated seats. i think as far as your point, some people might agree with you and some might disagree-i would disagree.
I disagree too. Nick, in my 6 years of experience with MB and Porsche it ain't about the money. It's about a percieved value.
MANY clients see the benefit in owning a brand new, out of the crate -car. Based on their own personal buying S.O.P's- when considering a car of this price range and considering - all the things that COULD go wrong with a car of this price range; buying off a 'used car lot' can be a scary proposition.
Here's the car now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-...ayphotohosting
$86,900 buy it now.
Obviously clients who are considering a Turbo aren't considering THIS particular car.
And the ones who WOULD; more then likely aren't doing all the research they should when looking at a machine of this caliber. Nor can they get financing that they've 'oh so enjoyed' over the last several years. - You know the client; makes pretty good money, low 600 to high 500 fico score's; financed up the whaazoo. Thinks they're a 'real player'.
This client will now be the one getting declined on financing and is letting one of their 3 'investment' properties go into foreclosure. -
NON of those attributes reflect in the typical 911 buyer/owner.
I think the days of the 'lay down' person who just wants a Porsche is almost over; thus these 'used car lot's are going to feel the real sqeeze.
We'll see if I'm right or wrong over the next 3 quarters.
12-26-2008, 01:36 AM
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So I'd say, to a point- yes. But not sure about the actual dollar amount. How do you quantify that?? lol
" Hmm, lemme see, I think it's worth about, oh............$5,000 grand off."
just poking fun at ya LT.
12-26-2008, 03:41 AM
#23
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12-26-2008, 11:35 AM
#24
Drifting
Having 30~40k miles doesn't help resale either....
12-26-2008, 04:16 PM
#26
Not trying to sell anyone here just going to add some pricing data to the mix. We have a 380 mile 08 997tt coupe with tip this was part of a collection of 28 cars we took in from one seller. This particular car is Meteor gray with full black leather and sport seats to go with a ton of other options which brought the sticker price to $142k. We’re looking at $112k on that car. The same collection had a 2009 turbo cab tip too.
Just some pricing info for you.
Just some pricing info for you.
12-26-2008, 04:53 PM
#28
Drifting
In our current economy, I think it would be outright stupid to be buying high ticket, depreciating assets for anything less than an absolute steal.
And the few buyers who are out there know it.
A lot of guys who bought in turbo coupes in 2007 at the very least, paid MSRP. Many paid premiums (luckily, I did not.)
But if new ones are out the door with a $10k rebate, that's $10k less the 07's are worth without factoring mileage, usage, warranty, etc.
So the idea that a car has dropped $30k-$40k is really not that unreasonable.
First, we need to factor that a car, driven with miles or not driven, will still depreciate over time. It's a given that most 911's don't get heavy mileage so that doesn't weigh into the factor cause it's already assumed. Though heavy to moderate miles will make values plummet more.
So lets look at what would happen if we were to have leased the car instead. BMW usually has pretty high residuals compared to other car manufacturers. Their cars seem to have about a 58% residual after 3 years on well selling cars.
So, if we were to have leased a 911 Turbo at the price of $130,000 with a 58% residual (that's what it would probably be for a Mercedes, BMW, Range Rover, etc.) with a interest rate of about 6.5% (money factor of .00271) the total cost of ownership over three years would be, approximately $74,130.
About $2059 a month x 12 months x 3 years = $74,130.
So even with an ownership depreciation of $40k on a purchased/financed car, we're still way ahead of the lease game. And the lease numbers I projected are actually fairly aggressive and on par with the other German manufacturers.
The low miles can not and should not equate to no depreciation. So, the $35k of money you would see that is above what it would have cost to lease, is reflected because you didn't drive 10k-12k miles a year.
And you can't expect a Porsche 911 to depreciate less than every other car on the road, including a Honda Civic and Saturn.
When I priced out the Audi S8, it had a 44% residual after 3 years. That means it loses 66% of it's value in 3 years.
My point is, people say they lose their butt when they buy a new Porsche 911. Truth is, even in a down economy, the asking prices are still well above what the normal depreciation would be on any other car, in both the more expensive and less expensive markets.
And the few buyers who are out there know it.
A lot of guys who bought in turbo coupes in 2007 at the very least, paid MSRP. Many paid premiums (luckily, I did not.)
But if new ones are out the door with a $10k rebate, that's $10k less the 07's are worth without factoring mileage, usage, warranty, etc.
So the idea that a car has dropped $30k-$40k is really not that unreasonable.
First, we need to factor that a car, driven with miles or not driven, will still depreciate over time. It's a given that most 911's don't get heavy mileage so that doesn't weigh into the factor cause it's already assumed. Though heavy to moderate miles will make values plummet more.
So lets look at what would happen if we were to have leased the car instead. BMW usually has pretty high residuals compared to other car manufacturers. Their cars seem to have about a 58% residual after 3 years on well selling cars.
So, if we were to have leased a 911 Turbo at the price of $130,000 with a 58% residual (that's what it would probably be for a Mercedes, BMW, Range Rover, etc.) with a interest rate of about 6.5% (money factor of .00271) the total cost of ownership over three years would be, approximately $74,130.
About $2059 a month x 12 months x 3 years = $74,130.
So even with an ownership depreciation of $40k on a purchased/financed car, we're still way ahead of the lease game. And the lease numbers I projected are actually fairly aggressive and on par with the other German manufacturers.
The low miles can not and should not equate to no depreciation. So, the $35k of money you would see that is above what it would have cost to lease, is reflected because you didn't drive 10k-12k miles a year.
And you can't expect a Porsche 911 to depreciate less than every other car on the road, including a Honda Civic and Saturn.
When I priced out the Audi S8, it had a 44% residual after 3 years. That means it loses 66% of it's value in 3 years.
My point is, people say they lose their butt when they buy a new Porsche 911. Truth is, even in a down economy, the asking prices are still well above what the normal depreciation would be on any other car, in both the more expensive and less expensive markets.
12-26-2008, 06:38 PM
#30
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I could care less about depreciation. I'm driving the living **** out of mine and loving it, 30k miles and counting!
Just did my second set of pads last nite.
Just did my second set of pads last nite.