Need Your Help - bad engine with only 180 miles!
04-10-2008, 12:48 AM
#1
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northern Jersey
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Need Your Help - bad engine with only 180 miles!
I need some help/advice.
I sold my 996 C-4 Cab and bought the 997 Turbo Cab, with special factory option – no holds barred – just the way I wanted it back in late 2007! When it was delivered, it was extraordinarily rewarding! My girl had the perfect sentence: “It’s the birth of your child---childhood dreams that is!”
2 drives and 82 miles later there’s a puddle of oil on the floor in the garage. It goes back to the dealer (Ray Catena Porsche – Edison, NJ). After 10 days in the shop, with daily conversations starting as a mild repair, by end of 10 days, they’re telling me they’ve done all they can do and it still leaks. They’ve just about rebuilt the whole engine and replaced just about every seal, gasket, etc possible to no avail and I have discovered it’s a “porous block” and need engine replacement. It seems the Service Technicians haven’t seen this problem since 2001. I don’t want a replacement engine. I want a replacement car – exactly as I ordered it. Something I’ll hold onto for years to come as the one thing I’ve given to myself without compromise.
However … and here’s where I need your help … I am told that full “auto replacement” procedure takes miles of red-tape, approvals, etc and “if” someone says “yes” … it’ll be several more months for the factory get custom orders like that into the system at this time of year.
That sounds like a bunch of ‘donkey dust’!!!! I can’t believe Porsche wouldn’t put someone who has a failure of this magnitude into THIS MONTHS production run. If the sales department is correct, I wouldn’t see a replacement car until August – which means one month later it’s a year old – no way! This also sound like a bunch of ‘already paid dealers’ not knowing who and how to get the right buttons pushed for an immediate, this-month-build solution.
So … who’s got contacts and phone #’s for a solution at Porsche? Or advice on who/what to do outside of Porsche? Please help. Thank you in advance for your help.
Feel free to contact me directly as I’m sure I need to move swiftly on this:
Gregory Saint-James Vigeant
201-615-9991
gregory@msihq.com
I sold my 996 C-4 Cab and bought the 997 Turbo Cab, with special factory option – no holds barred – just the way I wanted it back in late 2007! When it was delivered, it was extraordinarily rewarding! My girl had the perfect sentence: “It’s the birth of your child---childhood dreams that is!”
2 drives and 82 miles later there’s a puddle of oil on the floor in the garage. It goes back to the dealer (Ray Catena Porsche – Edison, NJ). After 10 days in the shop, with daily conversations starting as a mild repair, by end of 10 days, they’re telling me they’ve done all they can do and it still leaks. They’ve just about rebuilt the whole engine and replaced just about every seal, gasket, etc possible to no avail and I have discovered it’s a “porous block” and need engine replacement. It seems the Service Technicians haven’t seen this problem since 2001. I don’t want a replacement engine. I want a replacement car – exactly as I ordered it. Something I’ll hold onto for years to come as the one thing I’ve given to myself without compromise.
However … and here’s where I need your help … I am told that full “auto replacement” procedure takes miles of red-tape, approvals, etc and “if” someone says “yes” … it’ll be several more months for the factory get custom orders like that into the system at this time of year.
That sounds like a bunch of ‘donkey dust’!!!! I can’t believe Porsche wouldn’t put someone who has a failure of this magnitude into THIS MONTHS production run. If the sales department is correct, I wouldn’t see a replacement car until August – which means one month later it’s a year old – no way! This also sound like a bunch of ‘already paid dealers’ not knowing who and how to get the right buttons pushed for an immediate, this-month-build solution.
So … who’s got contacts and phone #’s for a solution at Porsche? Or advice on who/what to do outside of Porsche? Please help. Thank you in advance for your help.
Feel free to contact me directly as I’m sure I need to move swiftly on this:
Gregory Saint-James Vigeant
201-615-9991
gregory@msihq.com
Last edited by SaintlySins; 04-10-2008 at 02:39 AM.
04-10-2008, 01:35 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Albq. New Mexico
Posts: 968
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
very common for porsche to replace engine with major failure, not entire car...good luck with your efforts, your fighting a major corporations policy to make good on a failed component under the warranty period.
04-10-2008, 02:21 AM
#4
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northern Jersey
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm so caught up in the situation ... I completely forgot about 'buy-back' option! Does anyone know how that works (on the Porsche/Dealer side) so I can negotiate best deal/compensation package. Thanks.
Gregory - 201-615-9991
Gregory - 201-615-9991
04-10-2008, 12:26 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 1,241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pourus block..?? isn't that the same issue that occured with some of the 996 na motors. I sincerely hope that this is a isolated case. why can't porsche get their act together...who makes the blocks for them. its a shame that a car that costs over $120k has issues like this..why can't porsche learn from their previous mistakes.
04-10-2008, 12:43 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
I had an engine replacement in my 996 at 5k miles. I too wanted car replacement, but was told to pound sand. HOnestly at the end of the day engine replacement is not a big deal. I know it seems that it is, but really most car companies are going to component replacement. I'd much rather have a new engine in an already new car than the one they tore apart trying to fix. Really is an entire new car going to change anything? At the end of the day right now you have a new car and will get a new engine in it and you're in the same position as if they gave you a new car only you will be driving this one in a matter of days rather than waiting months. As someone who had the problem, and wanted a new car out of it initially I would honestly go with the new engine and not worry about it. I know that sounds cavalier, but really they solved the problem with the car and I was not out anything.
04-10-2008, 01:36 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Lemon Law
It is very simple, the car is a lemon. New Jersey has very favorable lemon law statutes and only requires 3 attempts to fix the problem or 20 cumulative days out of service within the first two years of ownership. You may as well initiate the buy-back now. Porsche and your dealer will probably come around and be helpful. If not, get you money and order another car from another dealer.
http://www.state.nj.us/oag/ca/ocp/lemguide.htm
http://www.state.nj.us/oag/ca/ocp/lemguide.htm
Trending Topics
04-10-2008, 02:18 PM
#8
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
The bottom line is that if the car companies didn't have the right to repair the defect 100% they would all go out of business. Porsche will replace your engine, it's not a big deal. They replaced dozens of 996TT engine and gearboxes. Things happen with the engine castings, and engine assy.
If you don't like your options you will have to get a attorney and sue Porsche. This is not a Lemon Law car because Porsche does know how to fix the problem. With there warranty they have the right also to fix and replace the defective part.
As sparkhill has mentioned if you car is 20 days in the shop that might be your "way out"
If you don't like your options you will have to get a attorney and sue Porsche. This is not a Lemon Law car because Porsche does know how to fix the problem. With there warranty they have the right also to fix and replace the defective part.
As sparkhill has mentioned if you car is 20 days in the shop that might be your "way out"
04-10-2008, 06:42 PM
#10
Intermediate
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I heard a similar story here in Sarasota. In any case, a new engine from the factory is no big deal and you should not lose any sleep over it. Cars are made up of parts that are designed for replacement. I am a mechanical engineer who has been a car nut for more than 40 years and would have no issue with the replacement of the engine on my TT provided it came from the factory and was not a dealer rebuild. The lemon laws are mostly "political" and all you will get is a headache even if they take the car back. There is no such thing as a lemon just a car with more than one problem and mechanics who can't fix them due to lack of understanding of the problems. Enjoy the car - it is a great automobile.
04-10-2008, 07:35 PM
#11
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northern Jersey
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
((( Copy & Pasted to multiple sites )))
WOW – I am impressed with the concern and responses. Those that echo my mindset will like my response as it seems we’re on the same page. Others may not – but it doesn’t mean I’m discounting your advice, so please take no offense. OH ... and it’s going to be a long one ...
I am personally attached to this car. Here’s why: Shortly before my Dad past away, I had the fortune of asking him if he had any life-time regrets. His answer was that he never gave himself 100% of what his passions wanted him to have. He gave 100% to his job, 100% to his kids, 100% to his wife, but when it came down to his boats and cars ... he would do all the research, end up knowing more about than the guy selling it ... but in the end get one-model-down, or get a used version. He never expected his life to end so abruptly, so he always thought he’d have time to get the best and be personally and emotionally satisfied later in life.
Some how ... every one of his kids is programmed the same way. Don’t get me wrong – I’ve lead one incredible life without short-changing myself. I also knew the cars, planes, etc, better than the guy selling it to me ... but I always took what was easily available, or accessible within a day or two. It wasn’t ever the way “I Wanted It To Be – As If I Made It For Myself” – somewhere deep inside I knew I settled for second best. “Second Best Is Not First Choice”.
So when my Dad said those words, I felt like I could have said the same thing if things were reversed, and I could feel his regret.
After the Estate disbursement, I decided to order my childhood dream – no holds barred – nothing done with reserve or trepidation. I even planned the order placement around an early spring delivery – and contacted the DMV to make sure I could get the plates “NO REGRETS”.
So here’s where I stand on several issues. Admittedly, some may have too much emotion behind them, but others are financial decisions that I can not/will not compromise on.
1. I will not accept a replacement engine. In this (and other) forums we replied to people curious about a car (any car) having a “dealer/manufacturer replaced engine” installed during warrantee. We all advise them to beware, be careful and be cautious, etc, as it’s a big red flag! It discounts the price significantly, and if it’s not disclosed upon sale, in some states you’re breaking the law because of its significance to the buyer. I am not taking a financial loss for inferior products.
2. Taking the last line of #1 a little further ... I will not take a loss for an inferior product. If any manufacturer (regardless of product) makes an inferior item, you are by law, entitled to all your money back, AND all monies spent in making things correct again (Fair Trade Act). As seen here, there are people who accept inferiority even if it cost them money (again, I’m not trying to insult your position or advice). I just can’t get my head around that concept. I don’t want to ‘make’ money on this mistake, but I’m certainly not going to take a loss. I wouldn’t care if this was a lawn mower, Porsche or Lear Jet ... I am not going to absorb the loss, nor pay for other peoples mistakes or inferiority. Ever!
3. I am aware that ‘some’ buyers will not take into consideration a replacement engine, but that certainly isn’t all of the “possible buyers”. Therefore, when time to sell, my “purchasing audience” is reduced. Once that happens it is only I who suffer from a reduced buying pool, hence the best price offer. Consider this ... if someone is looking for a ‘perfect car’, then certainly they’re going to “pay for a perfect car” ... and they’re willing to part with more money for that perfection. For the efforts I put into maintaining my cars, I’m certainly not going to lose top dollar do to a replacement engine discounting my buying audience. (NOTE: I sold my previous car for $10,400.00 more than any similar car offered anywhere ... to someone that wanted and bought a ‘perfect’ Porsche – this wouldn’t have happened with a replacement engine).
4. Porsche (as most companies) will do more than just replace the defective item for ‘some people’ and not ‘others’. They have an entire team who ‘over-compensate’ for when things go bad. Some people not only get new cars, but they’re financially compensated for the time they were without the vehicle they purchased. It’s getting to the right people that make those decisions that I need help with.
5. You will always get the most from those who feel you’re a threat – that can be disarmed with as little loss as possible. I don’t want to be ‘threatening’ – but I want to make my case BEFORE someone else decides how they ‘feel’ about my case. It’s easier to help someone make up their mind than it is to change their mind. I want to help PCNA in Atlanta, make up their mind to do the right thing on an inferior product. There is a division in the headquarters who handles these issues, and that’s the department I want/need to get in touch with.
In argument for the dealership and PCNA to do the right thing (by my standard), they could buy-back the car, get compensation from Porsche (Germany), be ‘given’ an engine and get labor reimbursement, put the car back on the show-room floor, and find a sucker who won’t care about a replacement engine and sell the car twice for top dollar. They’d even be able to sell me another car! It’s a friggin’ trifecta for the dealership!
I want to thank everyone for their input. It’s really nice to feel everyone rally around and offer advice. I know some may feel I’ve kicked their opinion in the nad’s ... but please don’t ... it’s just an ‘opinion’ ... and like an a$$hole – we all have ‘em, and they all stink. I will keep you all posted on the results. I have a meeting today at the dealership with a Regional Service Manager to present my case for buy-back or replacement car ... once I’m back at my desk, I’ll share my outcome.
I’m still looking for the secret contact/big-shot in PCNA’s headquarters that makes these final decisions.
Thank you again.
WOW – I am impressed with the concern and responses. Those that echo my mindset will like my response as it seems we’re on the same page. Others may not – but it doesn’t mean I’m discounting your advice, so please take no offense. OH ... and it’s going to be a long one ...
I am personally attached to this car. Here’s why: Shortly before my Dad past away, I had the fortune of asking him if he had any life-time regrets. His answer was that he never gave himself 100% of what his passions wanted him to have. He gave 100% to his job, 100% to his kids, 100% to his wife, but when it came down to his boats and cars ... he would do all the research, end up knowing more about than the guy selling it ... but in the end get one-model-down, or get a used version. He never expected his life to end so abruptly, so he always thought he’d have time to get the best and be personally and emotionally satisfied later in life.
Some how ... every one of his kids is programmed the same way. Don’t get me wrong – I’ve lead one incredible life without short-changing myself. I also knew the cars, planes, etc, better than the guy selling it to me ... but I always took what was easily available, or accessible within a day or two. It wasn’t ever the way “I Wanted It To Be – As If I Made It For Myself” – somewhere deep inside I knew I settled for second best. “Second Best Is Not First Choice”.
So when my Dad said those words, I felt like I could have said the same thing if things were reversed, and I could feel his regret.
After the Estate disbursement, I decided to order my childhood dream – no holds barred – nothing done with reserve or trepidation. I even planned the order placement around an early spring delivery – and contacted the DMV to make sure I could get the plates “NO REGRETS”.
So here’s where I stand on several issues. Admittedly, some may have too much emotion behind them, but others are financial decisions that I can not/will not compromise on.
1. I will not accept a replacement engine. In this (and other) forums we replied to people curious about a car (any car) having a “dealer/manufacturer replaced engine” installed during warrantee. We all advise them to beware, be careful and be cautious, etc, as it’s a big red flag! It discounts the price significantly, and if it’s not disclosed upon sale, in some states you’re breaking the law because of its significance to the buyer. I am not taking a financial loss for inferior products.
2. Taking the last line of #1 a little further ... I will not take a loss for an inferior product. If any manufacturer (regardless of product) makes an inferior item, you are by law, entitled to all your money back, AND all monies spent in making things correct again (Fair Trade Act). As seen here, there are people who accept inferiority even if it cost them money (again, I’m not trying to insult your position or advice). I just can’t get my head around that concept. I don’t want to ‘make’ money on this mistake, but I’m certainly not going to take a loss. I wouldn’t care if this was a lawn mower, Porsche or Lear Jet ... I am not going to absorb the loss, nor pay for other peoples mistakes or inferiority. Ever!
3. I am aware that ‘some’ buyers will not take into consideration a replacement engine, but that certainly isn’t all of the “possible buyers”. Therefore, when time to sell, my “purchasing audience” is reduced. Once that happens it is only I who suffer from a reduced buying pool, hence the best price offer. Consider this ... if someone is looking for a ‘perfect car’, then certainly they’re going to “pay for a perfect car” ... and they’re willing to part with more money for that perfection. For the efforts I put into maintaining my cars, I’m certainly not going to lose top dollar do to a replacement engine discounting my buying audience. (NOTE: I sold my previous car for $10,400.00 more than any similar car offered anywhere ... to someone that wanted and bought a ‘perfect’ Porsche – this wouldn’t have happened with a replacement engine).
4. Porsche (as most companies) will do more than just replace the defective item for ‘some people’ and not ‘others’. They have an entire team who ‘over-compensate’ for when things go bad. Some people not only get new cars, but they’re financially compensated for the time they were without the vehicle they purchased. It’s getting to the right people that make those decisions that I need help with.
5. You will always get the most from those who feel you’re a threat – that can be disarmed with as little loss as possible. I don’t want to be ‘threatening’ – but I want to make my case BEFORE someone else decides how they ‘feel’ about my case. It’s easier to help someone make up their mind than it is to change their mind. I want to help PCNA in Atlanta, make up their mind to do the right thing on an inferior product. There is a division in the headquarters who handles these issues, and that’s the department I want/need to get in touch with.
In argument for the dealership and PCNA to do the right thing (by my standard), they could buy-back the car, get compensation from Porsche (Germany), be ‘given’ an engine and get labor reimbursement, put the car back on the show-room floor, and find a sucker who won’t care about a replacement engine and sell the car twice for top dollar. They’d even be able to sell me another car! It’s a friggin’ trifecta for the dealership!
I want to thank everyone for their input. It’s really nice to feel everyone rally around and offer advice. I know some may feel I’ve kicked their opinion in the nad’s ... but please don’t ... it’s just an ‘opinion’ ... and like an a$$hole – we all have ‘em, and they all stink. I will keep you all posted on the results. I have a meeting today at the dealership with a Regional Service Manager to present my case for buy-back or replacement car ... once I’m back at my desk, I’ll share my outcome.
I’m still looking for the secret contact/big-shot in PCNA’s headquarters that makes these final decisions.
Thank you again.
04-11-2008, 10:26 PM
#12
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northern Jersey
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a quick update.
Seems PCNA is willing to work with me regarding a buy-back - and we do have an alternative offer in regards to engine replacement, but as of today, the 2nd solution hasn't gotten a response yet. At this point my second option is prefered, as it gives me the car back with a monetary compensation for resale losses, but we'll see what they say and I'll post my results.
Thank you for those that contacted me and offered assistance. Greatly appreciated!
Seems PCNA is willing to work with me regarding a buy-back - and we do have an alternative offer in regards to engine replacement, but as of today, the 2nd solution hasn't gotten a response yet. At this point my second option is prefered, as it gives me the car back with a monetary compensation for resale losses, but we'll see what they say and I'll post my results.
Thank you for those that contacted me and offered assistance. Greatly appreciated!
04-12-2008, 12:39 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 1,241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i absolutely agree with you. who in there right mind buys a brand new car which cost over 120k and be satisfied with a engine replacement with less than 200 miles on the car. you would be on the losing end right from the get go if you decide to sell the car within a few years. do not accept anything else than a brand new vehicle. if that means waiting a couple more months so be it...good luck and keep us posted..
04-12-2008, 01:09 AM
#14
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northern Jersey
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the encouragement "Manny_G"!
Nice shine on that 'Please-Don't-Write-Me-A-Ticket-Red' T-T!
That's what I call ALL red cars. Had a red car ONCE ... got 6 tickets in three weeks, same places I've been driving for 12 years without going noticed. Asked the last officer, "why me" ... and he said "you're the only one I saw". That night I read an article about red cars getting three times more moving violations than any other vehicle color. Traded the car the following morning!
Ticket free 11 years now!
Hope you're luckier than I am!
Nice shine on that 'Please-Don't-Write-Me-A-Ticket-Red' T-T!
That's what I call ALL red cars. Had a red car ONCE ... got 6 tickets in three weeks, same places I've been driving for 12 years without going noticed. Asked the last officer, "why me" ... and he said "you're the only one I saw". That night I read an article about red cars getting three times more moving violations than any other vehicle color. Traded the car the following morning!
Ticket free 11 years now!
Hope you're luckier than I am!
04-12-2008, 04:28 AM
#15
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
A friend of mine (who happens to be an attorney) returned his MY05 997 Cabrio to his dealer and got his money back because he wasn't happy with something. Something can be done IAW the Lemon Laws in your area.