mastiffdog

Remember, you're hearing an opinion from a guy who is selling. Here is his opinion:

"True CF would be molded Kevlar (we've done it, trust me)."

He never responded to my question and was quick to provide criticism on the Carbon Fiber offered by Porsche. Here's the criticism:

"These are nothing more than plastic wrapped in carbon fabric and clearcoated." Eric, can you please substantiate this claim?

Then he endorses his own products. His contribution to the thread is self serving as far as I am concerned. And finally the self promotion and opinion, stated as if it were a fact:

"And FYI, our painted plastics will hold up far longer than factory carbon will. If this stuff is done right, it's done to last."

Whoopsy

Ok so the carbon fiber is not really fiber, but from past experiences of my 2 996s, the aluminlook stuff scratch up much easier, my wedding ring scratched the aluminlook steering wheel and the scratches are pretty ugly. The same ring did some damage to the carbon fiber trim of my second 996 and the clear coat does scratch up but the carbon weave underneath hides the scratch pretty good and it's not really noticeable unless someone really look for it.

For Porsche parts alone the carbon trims is more durable than the aluminlook trim. I however would have no info on the durability of Eric's trim pieces.

mooty

the CF in porsche does scratch up, just be careful.
and eric is right, those pieces are not carbon fiber. CF doesn't necessarily need to be kevlar molded. but they are fiber, string put together, then "glued" together. think hi end bicycle frames. p car uses carbon look material. real CF would be 3-4x the cost of carbon packages PAG currently charges.

Eric - Plug Guy

You are dead wrong. There was a comment about painted finishes not holding up, so I defended that indicating our history and yes, that if done right, it holds up just fine. We have consoles in cars over 8 years old that look like they were painted yesterday. Experience drives my comments, not hearsay. Just ask around on any of the boards.

Your question was whether Porsche will replace delaminated carbon over and over and over. Since we are not your selling dealer, we cannot know what Porsche will do and we do not have a crystal ball. You should take up the issue with the District Svc Mgr for your dealership and go face to face with him over the poor quality.

The remark I made on CF was defining what Porsche does, NOT slamming their product. I never said it was a bad product. And we can live without the cf business. It's a royal pain to produce it, it's in very short supply, and we bust our butts to do it right. It is not a high margin business.

We are elbow deep in carbon on a regular basis. We do it to a 'beyond factory standard' quality level, and we have worldwide customers who still have our 996 parts in tact over five years without delamination and without yellowing.



We get calls often from Porsche customers who ordered factory carbon only to find a couple years into the car, there is substantial yellowing and delamination, and asking if we can relaminate. We can't, but after many years of doing this, and seeing the parts from Porsche in hand after they delaminate, it is 100% correct that they simply laminate to the plastic parts. It's not a 'bad' thing at all, it's how they do it, and have done it. We do it that way too, but we use different adhesives, different techniques, and better quality clear coat so it won't yellow.

The only thing I (in your words: "endorsed") compared it to was my comment defending how well painted plastics will hold up compared to factory carbon (yellowing/delam issues). Painted plastics, when done right, won't do either.

Good grief. Nice to be a lifetime member, sponsor, and answer questions based on many years of experience, to get slammed as if I'm promoting. Good luck with your bad carbon.

Terry Adams

Thanks guys, very informative.

Last weekend at a party I talked to a guy who was a cigarette boat builder in Miami. The 2K lbs thrust turbine engine kind that can outrun the Coast Guard helicopters, if you know what I mean. He explained the difference between Kevlar CF for structural applications v. CF trim for bling. Seems it was mostly a matter of how many layers.

I love the look of it, and I know it's not for everybody. I am pretty careful with my toys no matter what the material, so am sticking with my CF order as it stands.

TD in DC

I have no axe to grind and I can tell you that Eric is 100 percent correct.

I have full carbon package from Porsche. My car is always garaged, so I haven't experienced any problems . . . yet . . . but Eric is right. Carbon looks better than painted plastic IMHO, but the painted plastic has fewer things that can go wrong. The Porsche fiber is just CF laid over the top of the plastic parts and then clear coated. No mystery about that. You can see it immediately when you remove any of the factor Porsche CF parts.

gradyex

I can speak for the leather durability because my car is loaded with a bunch of extra leather options. If you don't maintain the leather properly and its left out in the direct sun a lot it will crack and dry up in time. This is where sunshades are a must have option. Its important to keep leather out of the sun but there are products (my Porsche dealer sells them) that you apply to the dash/seats that are UV resistant. Also a good conditioner (I use Porsches) is an excellent product but its important to not overdo it (just keep it clean). The leather does scuff up easily so I need to be extra carefull entering and exiting the car. The smell and feel of my interior is truely a hand made work of art. Fit and finish are second to none.

rbh2002@rbhlaw.com

I've had several pieces of Porsche carbon fiber interior trim delaminate. Primarily the door pocket covers in my Boxster S. The carbon fiber skin curled and eventually totally delaminated; it detached completely. I mean, it is small comfort how strong carbon fiber is on boats, space shuttles or whatever if your ridiculously expensive carbon fiber trim piece has curled up, detached and is laying on the floor of your car!!

You can tell the "carbon fiber" is just a thin skin or veneer glued onto the standard plastic cover underneath. Hard to blame it on sun even though I live in CA, because car is garaged most of the time. Very disappointing for Porsche products esp considering the price. Dealer says if it is past the 2 yr warranty period tough luck. Seems to me there could well be a misrepresentation, describing these parts as being "carbon fiber" when they are just a veneer half-*** glued over the standard plastic part. Kind of like a furniture maker trying to pass off veneer covered particle board as solid wood. Not that it really matters functionally, since they are just decorative parts, but if they are only doing a veneer anyway, they should just use some sort of carbon-fiber patterned plastic (similar to the interior trim kits out there) that is less expensive, easier to work with and more durable than these quasi-"carbon" pieces Porsche is selling for outrageous prices.

cf911

if u wrap something you still using REAL carbon fiber but is not weigh less that the difference...

OneManTX

Weird that this thread popped up here. I had carbon fiber interior on my 996. Three pieces on dash curled. Repaired under warranty but took 6 months for the parts to come in.

DRJMK

test drove an 08 C4S(new) with CF package and the dash pieces were coming off and the windshield pieces were off and warped. asked the dealer and he said they would reglue them! A few weeks later, went back and reglued, but majory warped. Needless to say I did not buy that car. I saw the headache coming!