Gilbasa

I'd like to add something quick to the discussion. Porsche has designed the new 997 TT for what I call "Road Superiority". The performance stats and claims by Porsche have always been very modest. I believe they do this so as not to be accused of over inflating performance to boost sales. Porsche knows that the Auto Publications will test them and get the real performance #'s on their cars. Case in point, "MotorTrend" just came out with the first un-official road test and here is what they foud; 0-60 in 3.2 sec 1/4mile in 11.2 sec. with snow tires on a runway with ice patches. I can't wait to see "Road & Track" officially test the car with summer rubber on a warm smooth test track. I predict sub 3 sec 0-60 times and sub 11 sec 1/4 mile. I think we all know who the top performer will be. "Porsche, there is no substitute."

eclou

I'll have what you've been having....

Gilbasa

ha!

You think I'm kidding??

I Believe it is the June or July issue of "MotorTrend" which you can pick up and read for yourself. The drivers at "Road & Track" tend to get the fastest times when testing new sports cars. Maybe they are a little crazier than the other testers at other magazines. But I can assure you they will get better times than the results the "MotorTrend" guys got in snow and ice on snow tires in Germany. None the less, even if they don't the "MotorTrend" guys got Ferrari Enzo type Performance #'s on a stock 997TT with snow tires. There aren't too many stock production cars which can even come close. I don't think the new TT will have much to worry about from competion. Especially from the Z06. At least for a little while anyway. BTW I like to drink Heffeweisen, Bass Ale, or Newcastle.

Cheers!

Bluehinder

The 997TT has nothing to worry about? What are you smoking?

See the Ring times below. The TT was using Pilot Cups, the Z06 street tires.

Make no mistake, the TT is formidable, and probably faster in any condition, but the driver has better bring his best game against the below cars, and the GT3 and GT3RS.

Besides, what the hell do you mean? On the street? At the Ring? On a long track? Short track? Or, do you mean in the snow, as we have all read the past few months.

I plan to buy a TT, and greatly admire it, but I would never make such a comment.

7'40 - Porsche 911 turbo (997) - 2006

7'42 - Ford GT - 2005

7'42.9 - Corvette Z06 - 2005

Blue

Bluehinder

Posted Ring time for the 997TT with street tires is 7:49. Consider that in the math.

355Spider

Yeah if you put sticky tires on the Z06 and the Ford GT they would both eclipse the TTs time by several seconds.

Gilbasa

You have to read the "MotorTrend" article to know what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the Ring. The Ring times really depend on a lot of factors especially the one who is behind the wheel, What I'm talking about is just sheer acceleration. the acceleration test was done on an airstrip with ice patches on it in 36 degree weather with snow tires in the middle of the night. They measured it with a GPS Computer which used 5 satlelights to measure the acceleration down to 99.9% accuracy. My point is that if they get 0-60 sprints of 3.2 and a 1/4mile time of 11.2 in those conditions on snow tires then ther is little doubt they will get better times in acceleration with summer rubber in warmer conditions. The best time a completely stock 997TT got at the ring with street tires was 7'42 flat. No doubt a GT3 or GT3 RS with the right driver is going to track much better than the cushy, heavy TT.
Again, I state Porsche always understates their cars abilities so as not to have anyone say that they are being overly optimistic about their performance. We wont know the true performance untill the Car Mags get ahold of the car and really test it.

yemenmocha

I found a slightly different way of getting my point across (so not to confuse anyone who might mistake me for trolling, <sigh>).

I know several Ferrari owners. What they tell me is that you have to love the car for its style, the sound of the engine, and exclusivity of ownership. My M3 is faster in a straight line than my friends F355, for instance. The 360 can't keep up with the 996tt nor the 997tt, as well as quite a few others in that price range. This "comparatively average" performance of Ferrari in many of these models is a sore point for some people, including me. I just don't like the style, engine sound, and exclusivity enough to have a car that will be slower than my M3. In fact, from what I understand this overall point is one of the bigger reasons why people decide against Ferrari - for the money you're not getting anywhere near the best performance in that price range. (OK, maybe the 430, Enzo, and F40 are different, but i'm talking about the bulk of Ferraris on the road already).

So, if Porsche goes the way of Ferrari in this regard, by not quite keeping up with the competition (yet having a loyal fan base willing to pay big bucks for the cars anyway), will this deter you from buying Porsche in the future?

See what I'm saying?

And by the way, if what was said above by others is largely true, then I'm even more thrilled I put my deposit down last month. A sub 3 second 0-60? Even low 3's would be amazing!

Aaron

Trip

The 7:42 time was acheived with cup tires, not the stock summer tires. The times motor trend recorded are spectacular and are much faster than the z06, but AMS magazine tested a zo6 faster to 200kph. Here are the times they achieved with each car. BTW, the turbo was a manual.
997 Turbo
0-100kph 3.7 seconds
0-200kph 12.2 seconds
Z06
0-100kph 4.0 seconds
0-200kph 11.9 seconds
It makes sense that the Z06 is slightly faster since it is lighter with more hp. The ring times achieved by the zo6 are the subject of much debate even with Z06 owners, Just because Dave Hill said it was stock, doesn't mean it was. Many Z06s have been released with more than factory claimed horseopwer while some have "only" 505. Porsche is also notorious for conservative hp and performance claims so I wouldn't be surprised if it all new turbos are pushing 500hp.

eclou

You are not even quoting the Motortrend article correctly. They achieved a 11.4 1/4 using either a GPS or accelerometer which will always read a better time than a christmas tree. Also, colder temps help a turbocharged motor much more than a naturally aspirated motor. If anything, the motortrend times will be the anomaly of all the other times.

355Spider

ALmost all Z06s are dynoing in between 450-460rpwhp. Using a conservative 13% loss due to drivetrain they have in between 520-530hp. Using 15% which is a commonly accepted number for standard tranny's that would give you about 560hp which would make sense because they are faster than most people expected. The good drivers are now running 11.2-11.3 @125-127.

355Spider

If your talkig about sheer acceleration then the Z06 is as fast or faster depending on how you race. 0-60 times and QT times really don't give you the best idea of how fast a car is. The quarter mile trap speed is a better indication. The Porsche runs 120 in the QT I believe. The Z06 runs 125-127. That's a good bit faster. If you raced from a roll as 99% of people do on the street then the Z will likely pull away slowly. It does have a good biut more power and weighs alot less. It should be faster. From a dig the Porsche will stay ahead for a while due to superior traction unless the Z driver is good because the good drivers are running 11.2s on street tires already. A high 10 is probably not too far off.

Gilbasa

OOPS!

My bad, I was off by two tenths of a secondon the quarter mile. I remembered it being 11.2 but if you went and read it just now I stand corrected. None the less it is still an amazing time to get. It's quicker in the 1/4mile than a McLarrenF1 @ 11.6sec and only two production cars in the world are quicker; the Carrera GT @ 11.3 sec and the Ferrari Enzo @ 11.1 sec. And yes cold air does help the turbo run more efficiently, but I feel that is more than offset by the cold, less than adequate grip snow tires, on a cold snow and ice patched runway. I'm positive you will see times equal to and better than that when the real testing is done.

Bluehinder

Hi,

Getting back to the original question asked, does the Z06 affect your decision to buy a TT, I would have to say. no, it does not. I still plan to buy one, and I own a Z06, so I am in a better position to judge than most.

I got the Z06 because I wanted something to screw around with until I can get a TT, and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I also wanted to experience exotic car performance. I've enjoyed the car a lot, much more than I expected. I had a C6 for about six months last year, and traded it for a BoxsterS, which was much more fun. The Z06 is a totally different beast than the C6, It's the real deal in every way, there is no need to go into it.

However, I'll still get the TT, as I am fortunate that the money difference does not matter to me. If money was an issue however, I think anyone would be crazy to buy more car than the Z06. All the dialog about which is faster is silly. I mean, I assume we all have day jobs and plan to keep them. Either car is stupid fast, and there are not enough benefits to the TT to justify twice the price. I bought the Z06 for $73, and I spec my TT at $138. It is not twice the car. Another benefit for me is the lower price. I find I am more free with the car, parking it in places I would never take my Porsches. I don't care about rain, dings, pollen, hot sun, etc. I throw golf clubs in the back. I never felt as free with my 996TT, or my current 997C2S Cab and like not giving a crap about anything except a good wax job. I also don't care about road chips, or how many miles I put on the car.

Getting back to the original question however, and again assuming cost doesn't matter, the TT has a much better interior, vastly better seats (I have the adaptive sport seats now), probably a better ride with PASM, back seats, more storage, and an ability to deliver nearly equal performance to the Z06 in all conditions. I plan to drive mine in the winter. The Porsche name has more cache, and doesn't carry the emotional baggage the Corvette, ie the stereotype (which is frankly stupid). I think it fantastic looking. The shifter is better (judged by the short shifter I have in my 997S Cab). The dealership is better to work with.

Is Porsche perfect? I think not. My new Cab had a defective cd/nav unit on arrival. My last 997 was in the shop six times for system fault. All Porsches I've ever owned has paint flaws. My C6 and Z06 had perfect paint.

So in summary, the Z06 does not affect my buying a TT. But, if the TT never appeared, I could live very happily with the Z06. It puts a smile on my face everyday.

And one last thing. We are all supposed to be car guys here. I see no need to question anyones motive in asking a question about the TT, or asking if there are any negatives to the car, and certainly no justification in calling him a troll. I think its a great question. We may choose a different car for our selves, but we should be respectful of the other persons logic in choosing his/her car. I love all cars, and have always wanted a Subaru WRX STi just to drive sideways all winter. Why do we have to bash other cars? Frankly, this behaviour does not reflect well on Porsche owners, and further reinforces the stereotype that all Porsche owners are stuck up ******.

For what it's worth, I frequent the Ferrari board, and they think the Z06 is fantastic. Several use them as daily drivers so as not to put too many miles on their cars. They seem not to be threatened by the Z06. Are they more secure in their decisions to own a Ferrari? I've driven with the local Ferrari club many times, never in a Ferrari, and they have always been simply wonderful accepting car nuts. I think that's the attitude we should have, and stop arguing about decimal points.

I obviously don't have enough work to do.

Keep the shiney side up,

Blue

mastiffdog

Awesome post Blue!