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Lately, my clutch has been starting to judder after driving around at operating temp for a while. It’s most noticeable in first and reverse. Along with the judder, I can hear a noise during the last bit of travel when pushing in the clutch. The noise is a creaking sound that seems to be coming from the transmission, either from the slave cylinder or something internal. When cold, everything seems fine and there is no noise when pushing in the clutch pedal. I have the EVOMS GT2 conversion and a Sachs 2.5, which isn’t slipping at all even under WOT. Clutch was installed under the previous owner and, as best as I can tell, has about 25k miles on it. I don’t see any leaks of hydraulic fluid nor do I see any oil from a leaky RMS (which was replaced about 17k miles ago).
I’ll have to pull the transmission to get a good look but I’m open to any thoughts/suggestions as to what the potential cause might be. Also, the workshop manual says to remove the engine and trans but I’m curious to know how much more of a PITA it is to drop only the transmission. If it’s a huge pain, I’ll drop both…I just don’t want to have to drain the coolant and do all the other work to drop the motor if I don’t have to. Thanks!
- Nick
Last edited by truekraut; Sep 8, 2024 at 01:58 PM.
Two things:
1. Creak - in my case it is me not lubing the fork cup correctly, so after a while I will get a creak when engaging the clutch
2. Shudder - not in a 911, but in my UrS6, it was the throwout bearing having a problem. It originally started as a "meowing" as I was shifting, then it stopped but the shudder started. Dropped the trans, replaced the throwout bearing, quiet as a mouse and no shudder.
The above may have nothing to do with your symptoms, but they might help. One of my Audi forums guys did not get to the bearing quick enough and wound up eating his clutch when the bearing finally fell apart.
As with the UrS6 and my kid's A4, I believe you can just drop the transmission. As a matter of fact, before I got this 911 I am pretty sure that's what they did to replace the clutch.
Two things:
1. Creak - in my case it is me not lubing the fork cup correctly, so after a while I will get a creak when engaging the clutch
2. Shudder - not in a 911, but in my UrS6, it was the throwout bearing having a problem. It originally started as a "meowing" as I was shifting, then it stopped but the shudder started. Dropped the trans, replaced the throwout bearing, quiet as a mouse and no shudder.
The above may have nothing to do with your symptoms, but they might help. One of my Audi forums guys did not get to the bearing quick enough and wound up eating his clutch when the bearing finally fell apart.
As with the UrS6 and my kid's A4, I believe you can just drop the transmission. As a matter of fact, before I got this 911 I am pretty sure that's what they did to replace the clutch.
Ed
Thanks, Ed. I think I’ll try to drop just the transmission as I did an engine-out service on the car about 12k miles ago and don't see a need to drop the engine too unless I must. I’m also not looking forward to having to try to guide the clutch fork shaft through the clutch fork while it’s taped to the pressure plate…all while keeping the needle bearings from falling and/or getting damaged 😆. Oh well, it’s the joy of working on these cars. Cheers!
Thanks, Ed. I think I’ll try to drop just the transmission as I did an engine-out service on the car about 12k miles ago and don't see a need to drop the engine too unless I must. I’m also not looking forward to having to try to guide the clutch fork shaft through the clutch fork while it’s taped to the pressure plate…all while keeping the needle bearings from falling and/or getting damaged 😆. Oh well, it’s the joy of working on these cars. Cheers!
- Nick
I did that with a GT3 and I swore to God I would take the engine out next time.
If you hear a clicking noise when you depress the clutch. It usually is a cracked diaphragm "spring" pressure plate.
A high pitch squeal or creak typically points to lack or lube and accelerated wear between the throw out bearing and throw out bearing fork "pads"
Usually we assume that there is no corrosion on the tranny input shaft and clutch disk splines.
We also assume that your needle bearings are in tact and not missing or crushed>>if they are damaged, your fork shaft and throw out bearing lever angle is "off"
Lastly, if your dual mass flywheel is original or tired, you will get a clutch/shutter very pronounced in reverse and in 1st gear if running up a slight incline.
When you have your tranny out, you night want to consider, drilling your bell housing and installing the GT2 slave on the drivers side like the factory.
If you hear a clicking noise when you depress the clutch. It usually is a cracked diaphragm "spring" pressure plate.
A high pitch squeal or creak typically points to lack or lube and accelerated wear between the throw out bearing and throw out bearing fork "pads"
Usually we assume that there is no corrosion on the tranny input shaft and clutch disk splines.
We also assume that your needle bearings are in tact and not missing or crushed>>if they are damaged, your fork shaft and throw out bearing lever angle is "off"
Lastly, if your dual mass flywheel is original or tired, you will get a clutch/shutter very pronounced in reverse and in 1st gear if running up a slight incline.
When you have your tranny out, you night want to consider, drilling your bell housing and installing the GT2 slave on the drivers side like the factory.
Thanks for the helpful info, Kevin. The shudder isn’t noticeable when first driving the car; however, it becomes noticeable after driving around for a bit. I’ll certainly look into the DMFW to see how worn it is. I do believe it’s original to the car (52,500 miles). The sound is definitely a creaking noise, and I’ve noticed the throw out bearing making more noise than usual from time to time when at a stop light. Out of curiosity, what is the benefit of moving the GT2 slave to the drivers side?
You remove some of the "risk" when mounting the slave in the original factory GT2/GT3/993/964 location.
Brackets move out of position/alignment and have broken. When this happens the slave drive rod will eject and typically wedge between your fork and pressure plate>which yields $$$ spent to fix the carnage.
Another benefit is cheaper replacement slave cylinders and throw out bearing fork.
You remove some of the "risk" when mounting the slave in the original factory GT2/GT3/993/964 location.
Brackets move out of position/alignment and have broken. When this happens the slave drive rod will eject and typically wedge between your fork and pressure plate>which yields $$$ spent to fix the carnage.
Another benefit is cheaper replacement slave cylinders and throw out bearing fork.
But you lose the additional assist from the Power Steering pump/fluid circuit.
But you lose the additional assist from the Power Steering pump/fluid circuit.
The loss of the assist is a big upgrade to me as the assist makes the clutch engagement point feel vague and inconsistent.. I've owned dozens of manual cars over the years and none of them had any assist from the power steering, it's a weird thing Porsche did, I think they were trying to allow folks to shift with their pinky toe because the assist makes the clutch pedal pressure so light, even lighter than a Honda..
Ok, well I’m starting with the basics and checked the clutch fluid level this evening and noticed it was a bit on the low side. I replaced the clutch master cylinder and bled the system when I pulled the engine 12k miles ago and haven’t touched it since. When replacing the starter motor two weeks ago, I checked for any leaks of any kind under the car and didn’t see anything. This weekend I’ll get the car back on the lift and do a more thorough inspection of the clutch line and also bleed the system. Hopefully it’s just air in the line, but then I have to ask myself how did it get there if I don’t have any leaks. Thanks for all the helpful insight, all. I’ll keep you posted.
Also, the workshop manual says to remove the engine and trans but I’m curious to know how much more of a PITA it is to drop only the transmission. If it’s a huge pain, I’ll drop both…I just don’t want to have to drain the coolant and do all the other work to drop the motor if I don’t have to. Thanks!
I've never done the job myself but my local indie who has taken the trans out without removing the motor said it was a PITA and took just as long as if they were to drop the engine.
Also Matt Ross has a YouTube video in his 997 turbo series where he removed his trans and you can see how much of a nightmare of a time he had. At the end of the video he said if he ever had to do it again he'd drop the engine.
I've never done the job myself but my local indie who has taken the trans out without removing the motor said it was a PITA and took just as long as if they were to drop the engine.
Also Matt Ross has a YouTube video in his 997 turbo series where he removed his trans and you can see how much of a nightmare of a time he had. At the end of the video he said if he ever had to do it again he'd drop the engine.
I did see that video and Matt certainly struggled. I think anyone would have a heck of a time attempting that job with two floor jacks instead of something like a low transmission lift. But in the end, he got the job done! The more I think about it, if I have to replace the clutch I’m just going to drop everything. I’d rather have the ability to move around freely to R&I the transmission from the comfort of my hydraulic table and not cramped lying on my back underneath QuickJacks. I can 100% guarantee the use of expletives during the process, but maybe fewer will be shouted if I have more room to work 😆.
I am so over removing heavy gearboxes and engines with jack stands. Even a 4-post lift would make that job 10 times more tolerable than what that guy Matt was going through. Let me leave you with one suggestion: replace those flywheel bolts.
Clutch Replacement?
