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Since most of you witnessed my 997 engine out journey I thought you might get a kick out of this.
Apparently the engine gods have other thoughts for my lock down activities, other than occasionally driving my 911. In addition to the Porsche I have a few Audis (none of them new). One of them was up for inspection (and here in PA that includes emissions). I had a CEL from cylinder misfires, but normally I clear them and I pass and go on, knowing that a carbon clean for my DFI engine that sits at 200,000 miles is due (it has never had one). When I got to the inspection, shut down and restarted, the CEL was back (never happened before). I paid more attention to the codes and I had a bunch of short to grounds, which normally means wiring.
No biggie, got the wiring diagram figured out where to start checking and found a frayed wire on the T-stat (this Audi has an electrically controlled T-stat). Disconnected it for the time being. Traced the fuse, found it fried, replaced it and most faults went away. I also found a flap actuator no longer attached to the operating arm on the front of the IM due to a missing circlip for one of the other new faults. Connected it and fault went away, but I noticed the arm was quite loose and on further inspection it fell into my hand - not good! Also while diagnosing, I was suddenly losing coolant. Me being me, I traced the leak to a wrapped hose behind the alternator. Also, I looked more closely at the engine and saw I could use a new valve cover gasket (I just did the kid's A4 valve cover gasket before moving this to the garage) as well as either a PS fluid (ugh~) or oil leak coming from the front of the engine. Part of the valve cover removal is coils, but when I started to remove them, they were covered in oil. No problem, must be the valve cover gasket. Nope, not a mark on that part of the plug well. It was further down where the cam girdle meets the cam seat(?) or whatever it's called. And you guessed it, it is an engine out task. When I did get the IM off, I felt more sure about deciding to venture into this insanity again since I found parts of the IM flaps in Cyl 1 & 6.
So, if anyone has an Audi S6 C6 with a V10 in it, and you want to know how to drop it, do a carbon clean, replace an IM, replace all the hoses, timing chain paraphernalia, valve/girdle gaskets and re-time the thing, I will be your man.
Carbon (and a piece of IM flap) in Cyl 1 (Thank God for those frikkin; dividers or I may have lost the engine):
Additional Oil leak at base of Oil Filter housing in the valley (that was the source of the oil I saw coming down the front):
And where the engine sits today:
The part that started it all:
Originally I had the S6 pointed inward in the garage, but since I will have to haul it down and out to clear the chassis (like the 997) I needed it facing the other way. Fortunately there is only a small slope to the drive and my kids were home to help push this beast. Since the top of the engine was already off, I had to figure out how to move the trans into N (push switch under the ashtray). I have to get the SUV adapters on the QJ, but then I will be rockin' & rollin'.
I placed my first round of parts orders for about $1k, and I am guessing it will be another $3k ($2k is JUST the IM), so similar in cost to the 997, with hopefully similar results (though this monster lasted 12 years and 200,000 miles before requiring major attention. The chain stuff is preventative as are the hoses, the rest is necessary maintenance or correcting failed parts. Oh, and for those of you following along, another set of special tools, a set of cam girdle alignment pins and apparatus to lock TDC (or not quite TDC as the case may be for the Audis) and the cams.
Stock, 435. I think they can squeeze 50 more with a tune and an exhaust. But the headers are really a bottleneck. If they ever could put a supercharger on the top of this thing, holy cow.
The problem with that S6 is you don't feel how fast you are going. Cruising the highway, you glance down and see you are going 90 and it feels like 55. It does make nice exhaust sounds when you get on it, and it does have Audi's version of PDK for a transmission. Next tune will be the 911 though. This beast's main job is to get groceries and take my daughter to the gym when she's home from school (which may be forever now?)
In case anyone had the insatiable desire to see a V10 out of it's natural habitat:
As I am lying underneath the thing, I suddenly start having images of my head being crushed by 900 lbs of engine/trans, so I yank out my hoist and 3 ton jack and position them on the engine and transmission, respectively:
Now for the fun part, dissecting the beast and fixing all it's 200,000 mile warts. Time for a beer or two and a couple of pats on my own back.
In case anyone was interested, tear down is complete and re-assembly has commenced. Major tasks were the carbon clean (including the purchase of a new $2K IM - part of which you can see in the airway below):
Manual pick, media blast, over cleaner soak, more picking and a final media blast to get to this:
Replaced all timing chain guides and tensioners, and the RMS (had to buy the VAG special tool, no way I was going to jury rig it and have it leak!):
Oil was getting in the spark plug wells, so off came the cam girdles, into my tool box came some more special tools to hold the cams and crank and more of the frikkin' thin line of RTV that Porsche uses to secure metal to metal for the girdles as well as a new gasket around the spark plug wells. Cleaned up the valve covers, replaced a bunch of O rings (not as many as the 997) and hoses. A reman starter since you have to pull the engine for that, and every hose/piece of rubber, including an auxiliary water pump. Got the transmission back on and re-installed the exhausts (left side on in this pic):
I had left the fuel injectors in since I didn't want any media blasting material making it's way into the cylinders, and when using another special (though generic) tool to pull the injectors, destroyed two in the process, leaving one with it's tip still in the head:
I had 2 choices, undo everything I just did and pull the head and knock it out from the cylinder side, or drill/tap it and pull it out with a bolt. Damn hard steel those things, stepped up through 3 drill sizes, tapped, inserted a bolt and used the slide hammer and screw puller and the frikkin' thing finally came out at the end of a 3 day ordeal:
Waiting for some stuff for my injector test/cleaning rig and I have 10 used injectors coming from a member on an Audi forum for less than the cost of 1 new (I need 2 of the ten to work, but at least if the two I pick are problematic, I do NOT have to pull the engine to get to them. God willing and the creek don't rise I should be putting the thing back in next week and seeing if I screwed up or not. Oh, and just to keep me on my toes, my old UrS6 decided to spring a boost leak in one of the turbo to IC hoses. Fortunately I already had a test rig for that and found the problem and replaced it with a spare I had. And I finally got around to building the rig to pressure test the 997 so hopefully I will find out what's up with the idle on that tomorrow.
All in, I am up to $7500 (more than I spent on the 997) to put this thing back in newer condition, and I don't think I put half as many parts on it. So don't feel too bad on maintenance expense for the 997's I know for a fact it could be worse!
Yep, that's why I try not to get overwhelmed and think too much about all the tasks involved all the time. Yes, I do have to see the whole picture, but I only focus on the step I am on at the moment. The 997 project was more complicated in some ways, though the cooling system on this thing gets a little closer to the complexity of the 997 (not quite as complicated though). The wiring harness is definitely a beast. The real sum factor is the number of each thing with 10 cylinders.
The engine is just under 1000 LBS with the transmission and it is about 5' long, 2 1/2' wide and 2' tall. Big *****.
Yeah, my wife would really for that! Can't say I'm not interested though.... however I need to wait at least 2 summer cycles to pass after what I have thrown at cars in the past 2! And I'd have to trade in this S6 for an R8....
I do keep reminding everyone I have done about $15K worth of labor though.
Yep DFI engines (unless they are new technology with the secondary port injectors) will all have this problem. My guess is the .2's will face this at some point (I had seen a couple of articles mentioning carbon on those engines). The issue is that with the recycling of vapors combined with no more washing of valves with fuel (DFI's inject the gas directly into the cylinders) carbon builds up no matter what you do. That includes catch cans, fuel treatment and even IM treatments. The only way to cure it is to clean it. Now I use the "Italian Tune Up" as my motus operandi when I drive any car, so I think that's why I made it this long. I did notice at about 150K that I needed to do something as the performance and mileage started to drop.
1. Forgot to secure a heat shield in place - had to remount the driver exhaust
2. Had an wrong size AC compressor O ring, had to R&R a bunch of stuff to install it when it did come in
3. Had a grinding from the rear of the engine, thought OMG timing chain stuff, went to bed, woke up and checked the PS fluid - it was empty. Had filled it but it was sucked dry on the restart and the PS pumps are in the rear of the engine on V10's
4. Had a whistling noise, that I thought was the throttle plenum gasket, but turned out to be an air fitting that was pressed into the intake manifold that was loose. I used my epoxy coolant pipe experience to take care of that.
The suspension on these behemoths are made for weightlifters to work on. Jeez oh man, torquing this crap down was monumental, but the LCA bushings were the last pieces left on the 200,000 mile old suspension that had not been redone, so it was worth it. After a disappointing job by a shop pressing in some bushing years ago, I acquired a HF 20 ton press and did my own.
And now the beast is back in it's den, waiting for the nose to go back on.
I did get it off the Quickjack and drove it around the neighborhood where it accelerated, turned and stopped. No more misfires, though I need to test it some more. Inspection, AC recharge and alignment are schedule for next Thursday.
While I was at Audi, my buddy, the SM there, told me about an 2013 S6 with 40K on the clock that had a valve drop with no piston damage that the owner did not want to pay to repair, I told him I had enough with dropping engines for the time being!!!
04-27-2020, 02:51 PM
OT: Another Engine Drop - Audi V10
