Are Porsches more susceptible to winter salt damage?
02-05-2018, 01:47 PM
#1
Racer
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Are Porsches more susceptible to winter salt damage?
Reading another thread here raised this question in my mind. And, this is not meant to be critical of those who put their 997 Turbos away for the winter.
I've often heard of people who own high performance cars putting their cars away for the winter, and the most common reason I hear is that they don't want to subject their cherished cars to the salt on the ground. While historically I too avoided driving my sports cars in the winter, my principal reason was I didn't want to bother going through the trouble of installing winter tires. I always had other cars with all weather tires that perform better in snow or cold streets, so there was never a reason to go through the trouble of replacing the tires on my performance cars. The concern about winter salt on the ground damaging my car never entered the equation.
The way I look at it, I've been driving in NY on streets with winter salt for many decades, and I've never had a problem with any of my cars suffering damage resulting from exposure to winter salt. Yes, I have traded in cars that had problems, but not one of them was a result of damage from salt. My everyday car is a BMW 550xi, which gets driven all winter, and I've never had an issue with the car being damaged by winter salt. My wife's Cayenne S has over 100K miles on it, and the car gets driven all winter without issues.
So, my question is, are Porsche 997 Turbos more susceptible to damage from winter salt than non-performance cars? Obviously, if there is high snow drift, driving the Turbo may not be an option based on how low the car sits, but if the snow drift is manageable, will salt on the ground really cause so much harm to the car?
I've often heard of people who own high performance cars putting their cars away for the winter, and the most common reason I hear is that they don't want to subject their cherished cars to the salt on the ground. While historically I too avoided driving my sports cars in the winter, my principal reason was I didn't want to bother going through the trouble of installing winter tires. I always had other cars with all weather tires that perform better in snow or cold streets, so there was never a reason to go through the trouble of replacing the tires on my performance cars. The concern about winter salt on the ground damaging my car never entered the equation.
The way I look at it, I've been driving in NY on streets with winter salt for many decades, and I've never had a problem with any of my cars suffering damage resulting from exposure to winter salt. Yes, I have traded in cars that had problems, but not one of them was a result of damage from salt. My everyday car is a BMW 550xi, which gets driven all winter, and I've never had an issue with the car being damaged by winter salt. My wife's Cayenne S has over 100K miles on it, and the car gets driven all winter without issues.
So, my question is, are Porsche 997 Turbos more susceptible to damage from winter salt than non-performance cars? Obviously, if there is high snow drift, driving the Turbo may not be an option based on how low the car sits, but if the snow drift is manageable, will salt on the ground really cause so much harm to the car?
02-05-2018, 02:55 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Mine lived in New England most of its life and wasn't coddled, so it saw snow and salt for a while. As far as I can tell the negative impact is mostly limited to rust on some of the fasteners/nuts and the VTG actuator rods/assembly. It may not look as pristine as a 10k-mile AZ car underneath, but the service history and my experience with it don't make me think it's actually worse for wear.
(Some penetrants/lubes on the actuators cleared that up pretty well btw.)
(Some penetrants/lubes on the actuators cleared that up pretty well btw.)
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maschinetheist (01-14-2022)
02-05-2018, 03:46 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Based on my experience here in PA and the Audi's & VW's I have driven, I cannot believe that Porsche would fair any worse.
The biggest impact I had was salt water and rust on the rear suspension on my 16V Scirocco, Audi Coupe Quattro and Audi S6 when I used to trailer my Wetbike. I don't have a hitch on the 911 so I am not going to experience that particular issue.
The 911, like the Audi's (actually more so) has plenty of under body panels for protection from the elements, and as Skwerl noted, the actuator rods (which are already part of a tech bulletin) are probably the most important items to keep an eye on. Even cars that don't spend a lot of time in the NE will have issues with various fasteners over time. And while the car won't look as clean underneath when driven in the elements, I cannot believe there would be any long term harm. I am pretty sure the weather in Germany can get nasty in the winter.
My philosophy has always been drive the crap out of the cars I own. I don't buy them as museum pieces, I buy them to be driven in a spirited manner and the miles I have put on them (up to the 335K miles on the Coupe) with no major issues reinforces that philosophy. I am pretty sure I won't be putting those same miles on the 911 and I won't go looking for nasty weather, but I won't stop driving it because of it. The only issue I have is tires, I pay attention to temperature and the type of tire, I don't want to lose the rear end because the tires have turned to hockey pucks.
Ed
The biggest impact I had was salt water and rust on the rear suspension on my 16V Scirocco, Audi Coupe Quattro and Audi S6 when I used to trailer my Wetbike. I don't have a hitch on the 911 so I am not going to experience that particular issue.
The 911, like the Audi's (actually more so) has plenty of under body panels for protection from the elements, and as Skwerl noted, the actuator rods (which are already part of a tech bulletin) are probably the most important items to keep an eye on. Even cars that don't spend a lot of time in the NE will have issues with various fasteners over time. And while the car won't look as clean underneath when driven in the elements, I cannot believe there would be any long term harm. I am pretty sure the weather in Germany can get nasty in the winter.
My philosophy has always been drive the crap out of the cars I own. I don't buy them as museum pieces, I buy them to be driven in a spirited manner and the miles I have put on them (up to the 335K miles on the Coupe) with no major issues reinforces that philosophy. I am pretty sure I won't be putting those same miles on the 911 and I won't go looking for nasty weather, but I won't stop driving it because of it. The only issue I have is tires, I pay attention to temperature and the type of tire, I don't want to lose the rear end because the tires have turned to hockey pucks.
Ed
02-05-2018, 03:52 PM
#4
I don't know if Porsche is any worse than any other cars but I like to get my cars out on the road year round. Not necessarily long drives during Winter but I have an aversion to letting a car sit too long without being driven. This includes my summer sports cars. If there is a nice day during winter, I'll take the cars out for a spin. I am for once a month during the cold northeast weather.
I worry less about the salt than I do about a car sitting unused. Lesser of two evils. Besides, many people use their cars year round with snow tires. I would worry about older cars more than anything built in the last 15 years.
I worry less about the salt than I do about a car sitting unused. Lesser of two evils. Besides, many people use their cars year round with snow tires. I would worry about older cars more than anything built in the last 15 years.
02-05-2018, 04:34 PM
#5
I’m fairly new (month and a half) to owning my 2009 Turbo, can someone elaborate on the actuator rods and assembly concern? I’ve now seen this mentioned a couple times in various posts so would like to take a look at mine and address any service needs.
Thanks!
Thanks!
02-05-2018, 05:29 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Service bulletin was linked here: Basically you just need to make sure the turbo's boost actuator mechanism isn't rusted or otherwise seized, which it's prone to do, especially if you don't drive it a lot or get into boost hard a few times on drives. It's pretty exposed to the elements under the car.
02-05-2018, 08:38 PM
#7
Great, thanks! I’ll get the car up in the air and check them out, seems fairly straightforward. As far as getting on the boost hard a few times on every drive...I’m just watching the gauges on each drive just waiting for the temps to come up so I can get on the boost! This car is fantastic, I’ve had a lot of fun cars but this one is simply too much fun.
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02-05-2018, 11:32 PM
#8
Living in Michigan I don’t drive the Porsche in winter. Look under any car driven in the salt here after a few years and they are rusted to crap. Some brands seem to have better rust prevention then others. Also with regular car washes(brushless with undercarriage) it helps. My 10 year old daily driver which I wash regularly is rusted to crap on the underbody(bolts, steering linkages, etc) The salt even migrates to the strut assemblies under the hood and they are rusting. I do my own maintence and working on a rusted car is a pain. I plan on keeping the Turbo forever and hate rust. It might not matter in the short term (3-5 years) but long term driving in the salt sure will.
02-06-2018, 12:35 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
The way I look at it, I've been driving in NY on streets with winter salt for many decades, and I've never had a problem with any of my cars suffering damage resulting from exposure to winter salt
....are Porsche 997 Turbos more susceptible to damage from winter salt than non-performance cars?
....are Porsche 997 Turbos more susceptible to damage from winter salt than non-performance cars?
But that doesn't mean a car, ANY car, driven in a wet, salty environment isn't going to have some level of at least surface corrosion on exposed underbody components
If you bring your car to the shop for service instead of working on it yourself, you might never notice. And the shop, presumably being in a 'winter conditions' area, likely sees almost all cars they work on have some of that surface corrosion and will not go out of their way to mention it. But it does makes working on cars more of a pain, bolts get rusty, components look much nastier, but it doesn't necessarily cause a failure that a shop would say was 'due to corrosion', at least not for a very long time.
That said, some like the undersides of their cars, especially high dollar sports cars, to look GREAT, and driving them around where they salt or solution de-ice roads to stay looking great for very long. Same goes for those who work on cars ourselves... We might notice that the exhaust bolts or turbo housing has FAR more corrosion on a new car we just bought that was driven in winter than some Arizona garage queen. Damage, yes. Damage that a non-mechanic, non-obsessive owner might notice? Not often.
02-09-2018, 05:43 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
John - I'm assuming your post/question is coming from my newbie intro post regarding not driving my tt in winter(?). I get "stuff" from my friends all the time about not driving this time of year. Part of it is concerns over rust but part is also the horrendous roads we have in NJ during this time of the year. I drive an F150 and some of the craters I hit rock that beast, so hitting it with the 997 would surely bend or crack a rim, ruin the tire, or even damage steering/suspension components. It's happened before with other low profile tire/rims combos I've had. So I just want to avoid it with this car. I do take it out when the roads are cleared up, so it won't sit all winter.
As someone else noted above, I think different manufacturers have various qualities of protection from the elements. I had a Nissan Frontier many years ago and I installed an exhaust on after it was 2 years in NJ (1 year AZ before that). Everything was rusted under there. It was an absolute mess. The B`laster Corp did make enough PB to loosen those bolts up!
As someone else noted above, I think different manufacturers have various qualities of protection from the elements. I had a Nissan Frontier many years ago and I installed an exhaust on after it was 2 years in NJ (1 year AZ before that). Everything was rusted under there. It was an absolute mess. The B`laster Corp did make enough PB to loosen those bolts up!
02-09-2018, 06:25 PM
#11
Racer
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John - I'm assuming your post/question is coming from my newbie intro post regarding not driving my tt in winter(?). I get "stuff" from my friends all the time about not driving this time of year. Part of it is concerns over rust but part is also the horrendous roads we have in NJ during this time of the year. I drive an F150 and some of the craters I hit rock that beast, so hitting it with the 997 would surely bend or crack a rim, ruin the tire, or even damage steering/suspension components. It's happened before with other low profile tire/rims combos I've had. So I just want to avoid it with this car. I do take it out when the roads are cleared up, so it won't sit all winter.
As someone else noted above, I think different manufacturers have various qualities of protection from the elements. I had a Nissan Frontier many years ago and I installed an exhaust on after it was 2 years in NJ (1 year AZ before that). Everything was rusted under there. It was an absolute mess. The B`laster Corp did make enough PB to loosen those bolts up!
As someone else noted above, I think different manufacturers have various qualities of protection from the elements. I had a Nissan Frontier many years ago and I installed an exhaust on after it was 2 years in NJ (1 year AZ before that). Everything was rusted under there. It was an absolute mess. The B`laster Corp did make enough PB to loosen those bolts up!
02-09-2018, 08:58 PM
#12
Drifting
I don't drive my 997tt in the winter. I don't even like driving my daily in the winter. The corrosion is even on all the bolts/fasteners in the engine bay.
02-10-2018, 06:26 PM
#13
You wont destroy the car driving it in winter. All personal preference. As someone that is into detailing, I just prefer to have a car that I can work on and keep nice and clean year round. The salt just tends to get everywhere even in places you cant see it and cleanup come spring just takes forever.
02-25-2018, 06:26 AM
#14
Reading another thread here raised this question in my mind. And, this is not meant to be critical of those who put their 997 Turbos away for the winter.
I've often heard of people who own high performance cars putting their cars away for the winter, and the most common reason I hear is that they don't want to subject their cherished cars to the salt on the ground. While historically I too avoided driving my sports cars in the winter, my principal reason was I didn't want to bother going through the trouble of installing winter tires. I always had other cars with all weather tires that perform better in snow or cold streets, so there was never a reason to go through the trouble of replacing the tires on my performance cars. The concern about winter salt on the ground damaging my car never entered the equation.
The way I look at it, I've been driving in NY on streets with winter salt for many decades, and I've never had a problem with any of my cars suffering damage resulting from exposure to winter salt. Yes, I have traded in cars that had problems, but not one of them was a result of damage from salt. My everyday car is a BMW 550xi, which gets driven all winter, and I've never had an issue with the car being damaged by winter salt. My wife's Cayenne S has over 100K miles on it, and the car gets driven all winter without issues.
So, my question is, are Porsche 997 Turbos more susceptible to damage from winter salt than non-performance cars? Obviously, if there is high snow drift, driving the Turbo may not be an option based on how low the car sits, but if the snow drift is manageable, will salt on the ground really cause so much harm to the car?
I've often heard of people who own high performance cars putting their cars away for the winter, and the most common reason I hear is that they don't want to subject their cherished cars to the salt on the ground. While historically I too avoided driving my sports cars in the winter, my principal reason was I didn't want to bother going through the trouble of installing winter tires. I always had other cars with all weather tires that perform better in snow or cold streets, so there was never a reason to go through the trouble of replacing the tires on my performance cars. The concern about winter salt on the ground damaging my car never entered the equation.
The way I look at it, I've been driving in NY on streets with winter salt for many decades, and I've never had a problem with any of my cars suffering damage resulting from exposure to winter salt. Yes, I have traded in cars that had problems, but not one of them was a result of damage from salt. My everyday car is a BMW 550xi, which gets driven all winter, and I've never had an issue with the car being damaged by winter salt. My wife's Cayenne S has over 100K miles on it, and the car gets driven all winter without issues.
So, my question is, are Porsche 997 Turbos more susceptible to damage from winter salt than non-performance cars? Obviously, if there is high snow drift, driving the Turbo may not be an option based on how low the car sits, but if the snow drift is manageable, will salt on the ground really cause so much harm to the car?
A 911 is meant to be with us for ever and not to be scrapped after 12-15 years! That's why We dont't usually drive them in the snow and salt!
Keep Your next car for 15 years and drive it during the winters and see what it looks like!
It's not the first winters that hurts the car but after a dozen or so winters there will be a significant difference between the summer only cars and all year including salt and snow cars!
09-15-2019, 03:32 PM
#15
No! The difference is that the life expectancy for an ordinary car is around 12-15 years and after that it will usually be scrapped! That includes expensive family saloons like the larger BMWs and Mercedes.
A 911 is meant to be with us for ever and not to be scrapped after 12-15 years! That's why We dont't usually drive them in the snow and salt!
Keep Your next car for 15 years and drive it during the winters and see what it looks like!
It's not the first winters that hurts the car but after a dozen or so winters there will be a significant difference between the summer only cars and all year including salt and snow cars!
A 911 is meant to be with us for ever and not to be scrapped after 12-15 years! That's why We dont't usually drive them in the snow and salt!
Keep Your next car for 15 years and drive it during the winters and see what it looks like!
It's not the first winters that hurts the car but after a dozen or so winters there will be a significant difference between the summer only cars and all year including salt and snow cars!
However when you get to a point where you have found the perfect car for you and it will never be made again (E46 M3, Z4M Coupe, pick any gen 911, etc) is it doomed to just rot away and die eventually?
I have friends who love their 997's and I love my 991, not interested in a 992 in my future. Plan is to Krown rustproof the car before winter and after winter (as spring sets in as I'm told rust occurs most when the temps begin rising).
And wash it above and below almost every day. If it gets rusty can it be fixed? And how much $$$? That's all that matters. Certainly it can be kept going cheaper than forking out $160k for a new car (because that's what they'll cost by then at the rate we're going).