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997.1 TT 2008 vs 997.2 C2S 2009

 
Old 08-03-2017, 01:37 AM
  #16  
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OMG... get the TURBO! You'll kick yourself if you don't. LIVE MAN.

Who cares about maintenance costs anyway? In many cases, it simply depends on the car. An "S" could cost more than the 2008 Turbo over a few years. It's hard to say.

Heck, we could all be dead in 5 years. LIVE for now and just get it. We'll support you with tons of info to help you. Join the community here. You'll never wonder "should I have gone for the Turbo?" You'll already have it.
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:59 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by strato58 View Post
If you don't get the turbo you'll wish you got the turbo.
That was my thought process too, I figured I would be happy with a C2S or C4S for a while, but at some point I'd want more and the turbo is "More" with really no ceiling on the power levels it can achieve
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Old 08-03-2017, 12:45 PM
  #18  
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As you can tell from my signature I had quite a few "intermediate" cars before I moved up to the Turbos. I still have those cars, and I love my Carrera and Targa, but it is REALLY hard to pick them to drive over the Turbo.

Literally it's like - hmmm, what do I drive today, the Turbo, or something SLOWER?
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:52 PM
  #19  
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I've had 6 911's... All water cooled, and 3 of them have been turbos. All of them have been manual gear boxes.
That DEFINITELY doesn't make me an expert, but it has given me an idea of some trade-offs.

My favorite "driver" was a 2002 C4s.
Definitely not the prettiest, fastest, or the most expensive or nicest P car I've owned... but I really loved the way it all worked so well together. I had a 997 C4s too, and it was also a fantastic driving car.

I'd consider another 4s, but it was hard when I went from the 996 turbo to the 997 4s because of the difference in straight line performance. I'm currently on my 3rd turbo (2 996's and my current 997). As much as I loved the way the 4s's drove, it always left me wanting more straight line performance.... That's not the case with the turbo.

I know there are a lot of people that are in a different situation than I am, but since I can only have 1 sports car I chose a 997 turbo and I'd recommend it to anyone that wants a great car that won't leave you looking for more performance. It's refined, comfortable, usable, fast, and although it's not the best driving car I've ever owned, when you press the long skinny pedal on the right, it's pretty awesome!

I vote turbo.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:21 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Johnny DB View Post
Exactly! Look at my sig...
I went through the same progression, 996 C2 to check things out, a 996T as that's what I really wanted when buying the 996 C2 . . . Then the 997T as that's what I really wanted when I bought the 996T

HaHa! KH
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:12 PM
  #21  
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I figured I'd revive this old thread rather than begin anew. I have a "new to me" 2011 997.2 C2S Cabriolet. I've spent countless hours researching before I bought...and now after I've had the car a few weeks.

I enjoy the feeling of the C2S...it really is "just right" as Goldilocks may say. I was cross shopping for another M3, but the feel of the 911 is truly something special.

The only nagging feeling I have is wondering what I am missing in not having a 997.2 Turbo. Admittedly, my C2S is fast, and fun. It just doesn't blow me away. Perhaps I am immature (guilty), but I do love to mash the pedal now and again. I used to ride a Honda VTX 1800 motorcycle and loved the torque with the explosive power (albeit naturally aspirated power).

The C2S is quick, and nice, but I wouldn't classify it as "explosive".

Everything I read says the C2S is a better drivers car, better feel, more nimble, and the Turbo is a rocket, sticky around corners, but perhaps trading some of the fun factor in exchange for the "holy crap" factor.

I realize I could drive a turbo for myself and have a better idea (I did drive a 991 TTS and I didn't like it. Felt HUGE to me). I really want a car that I can throw around when push comes to shove. I also want it to scare me on acceleration, but only when I tell it to do so. I do plan to test drive a 997.2 PDK TT Cabriolet when I can, they don't become available very often near me, so I will have to be patient. Also, it is hard to sometimes tell on a quick test drive, so I was hoping fellow Rennlisters with more time behind the wheel could chime in.

One other note, my C2S didn't come with the Sport Chrono package. I have the Sunncoast retrofit on order, which is scheduled for install on Friday...will that help me bridge the gap?

Or will I always long for the TT (side note, I'm not a big fan of turbo lag, so not sure if this would rain a little on a 997.2 PDK car or not)?
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:21 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by PGrasshopper View Post
I figured I'd revive this old thread rather than begin anew. I have a "new to me" 2011 997.2 C2S Cabriolet. I've spent countless hours researching before I bought...and now after I've had the car a few weeks.

I enjoy the feeling of the C2S...it really is "just right" as Goldilocks may say. I was cross shopping for another M3, but the feel of the 911 is truly something special.

The only nagging feeling I have is wondering what I am missing in not having a 997.2 Turbo. Admittedly, my C2S is fast, and fun. It just doesn't blow me away. Perhaps I am immature (guilty), but I do love to mash the pedal now and again. I used to ride a Honda VTX 1800 motorcycle and loved the torque with the explosive power (albeit naturally aspirated power).

The C2S is quick, and nice, but I wouldn't classify it as "explosive".

Everything I read says the C2S is a better drivers car, better feel, more nimble, and the Turbo is a rocket, sticky around corners, but perhaps trading some of the fun factor in exchange for the "holy crap" factor.

I realize I could drive a turbo for myself and have a better idea (I did drive a 991 TTS and I didn't like it. Felt HUGE to me). I really want a car that I can throw around when push comes to shove. I also want it to scare me on acceleration, but only when I tell it to do so. I do plan to test drive a 997.2 PDK TT Cabriolet when I can, they don't become available very often near me, so I will have to be patient. Also, it is hard to sometimes tell on a quick test drive, so I was hoping fellow Rennlisters with more time behind the wheel could chime in.

One other note, my C2S didn't come with the Sport Chrono package. I have the Sunncoast retrofit on order, which is scheduled for install on Friday...will that help me bridge the gap?

Or will I always long for the TT?

I can't think of a single thing that a C2S could do that a Turbo could not do better......that probably doesn't help at this stage, though.
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70 914-6 - 2.7L screamer
73 911T Carrera RS Clone, 3.6 power
75 911 Targa - RSR width 930 motor
78 928 - DEVORE CAR, 6.54L
83 911 Euro SC - 3.2 Short Stroke!
88 928S4 5 speed
02 911 Targa
04 911 40th Anniv
07 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Techart beauty
09 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Factory Aerokit
11 Camaro SS - 6MT Z28 Spec, V7Ysi 850whp
12 McLaren 12C
17 McLaren 570S
The only reproduction 3.6 flat six engine cases on the planet
www.taorminaracingdesigns.com


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Old 05-20-2019, 05:45 PM
  #23  
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Thank you for the prompt response. And WOW your car list looks amazing!

I fully expect the turbo to be better in every way than the C2S (with the exception of getting the tail out if I wanted to turn off traction control and bust loose every now and then perhaps).

I suppose my real question is, by what margin should I expect the TT to "feel" better. I'm not looking for track times, just seat of my pants fun and excitement as a 3rd car that is not daily driven...just fun.

For example, another hobby of mine is high end audio (i need to find cheaper hobbies by the way). For my enjoyment, I've assembled a great sounding system of mostly used gear. I settled on a lot of Mcintosh equipment for my electronics, and I ended up spending WAY more than my initial budget, but hey, you only live once. . I know I can upgrade the gear for multiples of what I spent, to gain a 5% improvement here and 10% there...but I really don't like to upgrade unless there is a significant improvement. I'm at the top of the price for performance sweet-spot as far as I am concerned with my audio gear. Sorry to get off topic for a second, but it's a parallel to illustrate my point/question-

Now with the 911s (something very new to me... with 3 weeks as a P car owner). I am curious if the equivalent turbo would "mop the floor" with my C2S...or if it is more of a situation where it is 10% better here and there. 115HP gain isn't negligible, but I am curious if this feels night and day different.

I'm all ears

Originally Posted by Catorce View Post
I can't think of a single thing that a C2S could do that a Turbo could not do better......that probably doesn't help at this stage, though.
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Old 05-20-2019, 06:27 PM
  #24  
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It's not really the HP, it's the torque and the way it's delivered in a turbo vs. an N/A car...

I have not owned or driven many truly fast cars, unlike other folks here, but the TT has been my first car that repeatedly has me saying 'holy $%#' when I get on the throttle.
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:34 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by PGrasshopper View Post
Thank you for the prompt response. And WOW your car list looks amazing!

I fully expect the turbo to be better in every way than the C2S (with the exception of getting the tail out if I wanted to turn off traction control and bust loose every now and then perhaps).

I suppose my real question is, by what margin should I expect the TT to "feel" better. I'm not looking for track times, just seat of my pants fun and excitement as a 3rd car that is not daily driven...just fun.

For example, another hobby of mine is high end audio (i need to find cheaper hobbies by the way). For my enjoyment, I've assembled a great sounding system of mostly used gear. I settled on a lot of Mcintosh equipment for my electronics, and I ended up spending WAY more than my initial budget, but hey, you only live once. . I know I can upgrade the gear for multiples of what I spent, to gain a 5% improvement here and 10% there...but I really don't like to upgrade unless there is a significant improvement. I'm at the top of the price for performance sweet-spot as far as I am concerned with my audio gear. Sorry to get off topic for a second, but it's a parallel to illustrate my point/question-

Now with the 911s (something very new to me... with 3 weeks as a P car owner). I am curious if the equivalent turbo would "mop the floor" with my C2S...or if it is more of a situation where it is 10% better here and there. 115HP gain isn't negligible, but I am curious if this feels night and day different.

I'm all ears
It's really tough to incrementalize a performance gain and quantify it. I enjoy a diverse range of cars and appreciate them for what they are.

For example my 40th is not really that far from a 997C2S. My 40th is a special edition, X51 powerkit car. It handles great, and is a WONDERFUL driving experience. It's a cool fast car. The turbo absolutely smokes it in any kind of speed contest (whether a stock turbo like my 2009 or a modded one like my 2007), but that does NOT diminish the 40th!

Heck, I can drive my 911SC and absolutely rejoice in the driving experience even though some SUVs can take it from a stoplight.

What is dangerous about your line of reasoning is that it is a slippery slope with faster and faster cars. My McLaren 12c absolutely smokes either of the Turbos in ANY kind of contest. There is nothing that any of them do better than the Mac. Not accelerate, not brake, not go top speed, nothing. But again, this DOES NOT diminish the turbos!

It's all about the driving experience, man. They are good in their own right.
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70 914-6 - 2.7L screamer
73 911T Carrera RS Clone, 3.6 power
75 911 Targa - RSR width 930 motor
78 928 - DEVORE CAR, 6.54L
83 911 Euro SC - 3.2 Short Stroke!
88 928S4 5 speed
02 911 Targa
04 911 40th Anniv
07 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Techart beauty
09 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Factory Aerokit
11 Camaro SS - 6MT Z28 Spec, V7Ysi 850whp
12 McLaren 12C
17 McLaren 570S
The only reproduction 3.6 flat six engine cases on the planet
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:57 PM
  #26  
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Turbo hands down
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:21 PM
  #27  
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I definitely could use some more "Holy @$#!" in my life - thanks for the reply!

Originally Posted by campbellcj View Post
It's not really the HP, it's the torque and the way it's delivered in a turbo vs. an N/A car...

I have not owned or driven many truly fast cars, unlike other folks here, but the TT has been my first car that repeatedly has me saying 'holy $%#' when I get on the throttle.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:38 PM
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Thanks for the reply. I do recognize the conundrum of the feature creep / slippery slope.

In my world (at least for now) I am safe not slipping all the way to something exotic like a Mclaren as I'm already past my budget in the Carrera S - --whoops (started with an "M3 Budget" but the E93 didn't do it for me at all. Even though it made a lot more power than my previous E46, it didn't feel faster, it felt slower and softer. The sound of the V8 is amazing though).

The Carrera S for me feels very good, way better than the "M" cars, but I do crave more 0-60 performance (I don't need to break land speed records or put others at risk on the road). I am not a tuner guy, so I am really trying to decide if a 997.2 Turbo would "Feel" $20,000 better give or take seat of my pants.

I've paired down from having 5 cars, to 3 which is my max. Daily driver is a truck, Lexus SUV for the wife and kids, and one fun car. The garage is overflowing with dirt bikes and our side-by-side, so there is one slot for the fun ride.

I fully realize that it is difficult if not impossible to adequately incrementalize a performance gain and quantify it into words. I'm quite happy with my "S" for now, BUT...before I fully get settled into the car I want to know if I am keeping it for the long haul (which would alter my behavior as I may do some upgrades that don't add value but will be good for me), or bite the bullet now and trade up so I can settle into my "final" car.

I really don't buy and sell cars very often, and would put 3,000 miles/year on my fun car at the most.

Although difficult, I do appreciate those who have gone before me perhaps in a similar situation attempt to quantify the upgrade from a C2S to a TT - - -



Originally Posted by Catorce View Post
It's really tough to incrementalize a performance gain and quantify it. I enjoy a diverse range of cars and appreciate them for what they are.

For example my 40th is not really that far from a 997C2S. My 40th is a special edition, X51 powerkit car. It handles great, and is a WONDERFUL driving experience. It's a cool fast car. The turbo absolutely smokes it in any kind of speed contest (whether a stock turbo like my 2009 or a modded one like my 2007), but that does NOT diminish the 40th!

Heck, I can drive my 911SC and absolutely rejoice in the driving experience even though some SUVs can take it from a stoplight.

What is dangerous about your line of reasoning is that it is a slippery slope with faster and faster cars. My McLaren 12c absolutely smokes either of the Turbos in ANY kind of contest. There is nothing that any of them do better than the Mac. Not accelerate, not brake, not go top speed, nothing. But again, this DOES NOT diminish the turbos!

It's all about the driving experience, man. They are good in their own right.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:58 PM
  #29  
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Only you know if the S is enough power for you. Its plenty for me, but I don't track or race my cars, its plenty of power to get into all sorts of trouble
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:40 PM
  #30  
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The other thing I want to add is that a Turbo is the ultimate modification car. You can get an easy 600HP out of it or you can get 1500HP + the sky is the limit. On an NA car you are very much capped. Meanwhile an NA car has the same cost for wheels, tires, brakes, clear bras, and other kind of mods....so seeing as you would be paying the same bucks for upgrades, putting it into a Turbo makes a lot more sense.

That may or may not affect your plans.
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Current cars:
70 914-6 - 2.7L screamer
73 911T Carrera RS Clone, 3.6 power
75 911 Targa - RSR width 930 motor
78 928 - DEVORE CAR, 6.54L
83 911 Euro SC - 3.2 Short Stroke!
88 928S4 5 speed
02 911 Targa
04 911 40th Anniv
07 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Techart beauty
09 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Factory Aerokit
11 Camaro SS - 6MT Z28 Spec, V7Ysi 850whp
12 McLaren 12C
17 McLaren 570S
The only reproduction 3.6 flat six engine cases on the planet
www.taorminaracingdesigns.com


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