What would you do? Range 5 Over rev CPO'd 997.2 GT3
01-27-2017, 11:46 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
This has been one of the most stressful car chases ever. Partly my fault for making some assumptions about dealers and partly my fault for not knowing just how big this DME over-rev **** is.
01-27-2017, 12:06 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
With virtually every other sports car and enthusiast car you never talk about it because they aren't recorded and if there are problems up front you dodge anyways. Who knows how many of the 30 something used performance cars I've owned in the past were money shifted before I bought them. The only car I ever had an engine problem with was an E39 M5 which are notorious for spun rod bearings over 100k miles...and I was running Mobil 1 and not the holy-grail Castrol TWS so that could very well be my fault (I did not make that mistake on my E46).
01-27-2017, 12:19 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
an easy way (but not infalliable) to check if the car has been extensively tracked....
divide the total car mileage with the engine hours in operation. a purely street driven car will be in the 30s.
and extensively track driven car will be in the 50s.
divide the total car mileage with the engine hours in operation. a purely street driven car will be in the 30s.
and extensively track driven car will be in the 50s.
Last edited by chillindrdude; 01-27-2017 at 12:56 PM.
01-27-2017, 12:38 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
an easy way (but not infalliable) to check if the car has been extensively tracked....
divide the total car mileage with the engine hours in operation. a purely street driven car will be in the upper 20s, low 30s.
and extensively track driven car will be in the 50s.
divide the total car mileage with the engine hours in operation. a purely street driven car will be in the upper 20s, low 30s.
and extensively track driven car will be in the 50s.
That's 34.5.
01-27-2017, 03:04 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks, yes I'm about to take off to fly down. My GT4 left via truck yesterday to meet me down there for the trade. Hopefully I'll be back up in it after an all-nighter on the road...assuming the condition checks out.
01-27-2017, 04:13 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
So you are trading your GT4 for 997.2 GT3? Mind sharing why? (I would too, just curious what motivated you). And congrats.
Last edited by sunnyr; 01-27-2017 at 10:09 PM.
01-27-2017, 04:20 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
If the dive planes were attached using double sided tape, easy to remove and buff out. On the contrary, if they're affixed to the car with screws....I hope you like dive planes, because the last thing you want is knowing that you have body filler and respray the bumpers.
01-27-2017, 09:09 PM
#27
Agent Orange
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thanks for all the input so far.
I was able to check on the CPO stuff. CPO is possible up to 8 model years back. Evidently for any range 4-6 overrev PCNA/PAG requires at least 200 hours since, a leak down and compression check. Those results are then submitted to PCNA engineering for review. Then the vehicle must of course pass all other CPO requirements.
There is a technical bulletin specifically for granting CPO warranty in case of over-rev. The ignitions must descend numerically as the range increases. Implausible stored events can be ignored. Maximum number of total ignitions recordable by the DME is 65536 (just a fun fact).
Less than 200 hours since: Granting of CPO not possible. Exception vehicle received a replacement engine after over rev
Greater than 200 hours since: Tests must occur: check filter for debris, compression test, pressure loss / leakdown test, test drive for engine noise/smoking/shaking/throttle response. Results must be uploaded and a ticket filed with PCNA technical evaluation for possible approval.
As of right now I am still scheduled to fly and pick up the car. I feel confident I'm not rolling the dice on the car itself, just the potential resale challenge. That being said, I think if I do resale it I will have a lot of information to provide upfront to buyers and my price will be attractive enough at least to get people to read it. I know it will be a hard sell if so. I wouldn't dump it unless I was in a financial predicament. Finally, I have over revved a few cars on the track (F80 m3 8200 rpm, Fiesta 2nd to 1st instead of 3rd) despite how experienced I am with manuals and adept at track work. Nothing ill ever happened despite continuous flogging ...I thought to myself if I go buy one with a clean DME report and make just ONE mistake on the track, I've screwed myself on resale anyways.
The car is a 2010 Speed Yellow w/ 23XXX miles. Carbon buckets, PCM w/ Nav, full leather, full contrasting stitching. Brand new Cup2s put on by the dealer. No cage and mods appear minimal(though the dive planes raise a brow). I've done heavy due diligence and cannot find any explicit evidence of it being tracked but like most GT3s I'm sure it has. I'll track it anyways.
I was able to check on the CPO stuff. CPO is possible up to 8 model years back. Evidently for any range 4-6 overrev PCNA/PAG requires at least 200 hours since, a leak down and compression check. Those results are then submitted to PCNA engineering for review. Then the vehicle must of course pass all other CPO requirements.
There is a technical bulletin specifically for granting CPO warranty in case of over-rev. The ignitions must descend numerically as the range increases. Implausible stored events can be ignored. Maximum number of total ignitions recordable by the DME is 65536 (just a fun fact).
Less than 200 hours since: Granting of CPO not possible. Exception vehicle received a replacement engine after over rev
Greater than 200 hours since: Tests must occur: check filter for debris, compression test, pressure loss / leakdown test, test drive for engine noise/smoking/shaking/throttle response. Results must be uploaded and a ticket filed with PCNA technical evaluation for possible approval.
As of right now I am still scheduled to fly and pick up the car. I feel confident I'm not rolling the dice on the car itself, just the potential resale challenge. That being said, I think if I do resale it I will have a lot of information to provide upfront to buyers and my price will be attractive enough at least to get people to read it. I know it will be a hard sell if so. I wouldn't dump it unless I was in a financial predicament. Finally, I have over revved a few cars on the track (F80 m3 8200 rpm, Fiesta 2nd to 1st instead of 3rd) despite how experienced I am with manuals and adept at track work. Nothing ill ever happened despite continuous flogging ...I thought to myself if I go buy one with a clean DME report and make just ONE mistake on the track, I've screwed myself on resale anyways.
The car is a 2010 Speed Yellow w/ 23XXX miles. Carbon buckets, PCM w/ Nav, full leather, full contrasting stitching. Brand new Cup2s put on by the dealer. No cage and mods appear minimal(though the dive planes raise a brow). I've done heavy due diligence and cannot find any explicit evidence of it being tracked but like most GT3s I'm sure it has. I'll track it anyways.
Best of luck with the transaction, they are amazing cars, you won't be disappointed!
01-28-2017, 03:13 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Drove home all night from Pompano Beach to Atlanta. The motor is brilliant. No signs of any power loss or odd engine noise or behavior. The steering wheel alcantara is horrid. That is basically my only condition complaint. Don't know why they didn't replace that. Might try to revive it with soapy water and a soft brush before I pay for a rewrap.
I'm going to buy black seat back inserts as I think the yellow is too much but I'll save those anyways.
The shifter is unbelievably hard to shift. I think it has a short shifter. It's so stiff that I think it wastes any time saved due to a shorter throw.
What I may do is take it to Goldcrest or someone and have them do a general inspection and then take it to a local dealer to have anything that needs addressing done under the CPO.
Yep. From day 1 the long gearing just ate at me. Then it was the powerband that just gives up after 6k and needs a powerkit to breathe up top. It just lacks a special drivetrain. Lastly the rear end of the Cayman just never really looked good to me. I like a car that looks good from every angle. The GT4 was an absolute weapon at the track though.
Having driven the GT3 700 miles home late at night in flat Florida I can say with confidence the drivetrain is everything the GT4 should've had. It feels as complete as an M car. The GT4 desperately needs such an engine and gearing.
Plus...a 997 GT3 has been a dream for me and the timing seemed right.
Looks like both double sided tape and rivets. Unless the rivets are fake...
Will keep them rather than pay for a respray.
Thanks! Yes I found this to be very helpful and will provide the source docs if I ever move on from the car.
I'm going to buy black seat back inserts as I think the yellow is too much but I'll save those anyways.
The shifter is unbelievably hard to shift. I think it has a short shifter. It's so stiff that I think it wastes any time saved due to a shorter throw.
What I may do is take it to Goldcrest or someone and have them do a general inspection and then take it to a local dealer to have anything that needs addressing done under the CPO.
Having driven the GT3 700 miles home late at night in flat Florida I can say with confidence the drivetrain is everything the GT4 should've had. It feels as complete as an M car. The GT4 desperately needs such an engine and gearing.
Plus...a 997 GT3 has been a dream for me and the timing seemed right.
Will keep them rather than pay for a respray.
This is a very detailed report, thank you very much for sharing it. I had no idea it was possible. With this type of information I think you'll be safe down the road when it's time to move on.
Best of luck with the transaction, they are amazing cars, you won't be disappointed!
Best of luck with the transaction, they are amazing cars, you won't be disappointed!
01-28-2017, 04:52 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Looks great. Congratulations! If you ever decide to sell it, I won't beat you up overrevs if the price is fair 
I think I remember you from Supraforums.. white hardtop on CCWs?
I think I remember you from Supraforums.. white hardtop on CCWs?
01-28-2017, 04:58 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
If you think the car ends up being worth 20k less because of the over rev why not bid even lower? Let the dealer eat more of the risk.
Think it also depends on what you are going to do with the car these engines are really robust and it has lived through the over rev but I wouldn't think you'd want to track it.
Let us know what you do and how it works out!
Think it also depends on what you are going to do with the car these engines are really robust and it has lived through the over rev but I wouldn't think you'd want to track it.
Let us know what you do and how it works out!