When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
He's looking at that car hard. If it had few difference he'd be all over it. Preference is black/red optioned seats and a late serial.
If your buddy is a serious buyer and his parameters are black and ~20,000 miles, he'll never do better than the PNH car. Exceptionally high quality for the mileage and has buckets and ceramics. Plus he's buying it from a P dealer with a very strong reputation.
He'll look for a week longer than forever to find another black, high mileage car at all that doesn't have serious stories is my guess.
has anyone studied the improvements of the 4.0's suspension?
The OEM PASM control module for 997.2 GT3, RS, and 4.0 all supersede to the same part number of 997 618 105 96, which means the damping commands are the same for these three cars. The dampers and springs on the 4.0 are definitely different than 997.2 GT3 and RS. While I have not had the honor to tested the 4.0 dampers and springs, I do have customers who have installed genuine OEM 4.0 dampers and springs on their non-4.0 GT cars and felt that its 10-15% stiffer using the same PASM module.
According to Bilstein's listing, which I feel is credible since Bilstein is the manufacturer of the dampers and developing contractor for the GT3, RS and the 4.0 for Porsche, it shows that B16 Damptronic coilover is a suitable upgrade for the 4.0. See screenshot below.
Now, this B16 Damptronic kit(part # 49-145489) I am very familiar with, I have installed this kit on two of my personal cars(GT3 and Carrera S) and on many customers cars. The spring rates are 330/720 lb and the dampers are slightly firmer than OEM. For what its worth, I interpret this info as the OEM 4.0 suspension stiffness level is somewhere between the stiffness of OEM GT3/RS and B16 when using the same PASM commands.
Originally Posted by turbofever
as in .. will a set of tractive coilovers or b16 bilsteins with the dsc be better than a 4.0
The answer for this question is Yes. Especially for Tractive. I have personally experienced the improvement on street and track of Tractive+DSC over B16+DSC, which both are improvements over any 997 OEM dampers without DSC. DSC module alone is an improvement over PASM module(even on cars that have 4.0 dampers and springs installed).
Originally Posted by turbofever
I wonder if the car is really that much better over a well setup 997
There's absolutely no dispute that the 4.0 is a rare and high-performance collectible car in original form. As far as suspension improvements go, there's definitely room for improvement for non-collectible use via non-OEM parts from companies such as DSC and Tractive. But if I was fortunate enough to own a 4.0, I'd leave it completely original and then buy another car to play with. On second thought, a plug & play DSC module that takes one minute to swap in/out wouldn't hurt.
__________________
PCA National Instructor
TPC Racing stats:
2023 Porsche Sprint Challenge 992 Cup Am Champion
2023 Porsche Sprint Challenge GT4 Pro-Am Team Champion
2022 Porsche Sprint Challenge 992 Cup & 991 Cup Champion
2020 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge 2nd Championship
2018 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge 2nd Championship
2016 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champion
2013 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champion
2006 Rolex-24 @ Daytona GT Champion
2004 Grand-Am SGS Class Champion
One other subtle difference is the rear lower shock mount to the upright on the 4.0 is monoball vs. rubber. I'm not sure what other things are different. Springs, damping, that monoball, who knows...
but ask mooty and he will tell you the car drives better than any other 997 stock.
To clarify, in my previous post I was focusing on the aspect of suspension damping.
The front and rear lower control arms, rear toe links, and rear uprights are different on the 4.0 than on the GT3 and the RS. The rear upper arms(aka dog bones) are the same though. These items are associated with suspension geometry changes. The differences can be duplicated using 4.0 OEM parts, OEM Motorsport parts, or aftermarket parts.
Another aspect to consider is the 4.0 engine produces more torque and wider/flatter torque curve, and the gearbox has same ratio as the RS(not GT3). Having modifying and tracking cars(and motorcycles) most of my life I came to know that wider/flatter engine torque curve of an NA engine and/or shorter gearing generally makes the suspension feel better during loading and unloading. Another words, the driver can usually manage vehicle weight transfer more precisely(and more smoothly) with wider/flatter NA engine torque curve and/or shorter gearing via throttle control, but the suspension more often takes the credit for this improvement. By this, the RS has shorter gearing and slightly more power over the GT3 does make the same dampers and springs feel better, in my opinion.
One other subtle difference is the rear lower shock mount to the upright on the 4.0 is monoball vs. rubber. I'm not sure what other things are different. Springs, damping, that monoball, who knows...
but ask mooty and he will tell you the car drives better than any other 997 stock.
Yea if you want a faster, better handling 4.0, just buy a standard car and do the work yourself (4.0 kit, suspension, etc.)
Less expensive than factory 4.0 and you wont feel terrible for driving it. Plus if you go 997.1 you can avoid centerlocks, etc.
Now if buying for a collection, that is different...
12-10-2016, 11:24 AM
Very small needle in a very large haystack
