997.2 mods on 997.1
09-04-2016, 12:50 PM
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Track Day
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997.2 mods on 997.1
Looking at buying my first Porsche and found a 997.1 local to me with some 997.2 mods (and GTSRS mods as well). My first reaction was "accident induced upgrades," but was assured it wasn't the case.
I come from the BMW world where mods aren't really a red flag, so was wondering if people had opinions on this type of mod on the GT3.
I come from the BMW world where mods aren't really a red flag, so was wondering if people had opinions on this type of mod on the GT3.
09-04-2016, 03:42 PM
#2
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There is another post on here with some conversation regarding a 997.1 GT3 that is for sale on ebay that sounds like the car you are describing.
My recollection is that the car had sustained minor damage to the front bumper and that the selling dealer denied that the .2 mods were done as a result of a "serious" accident. But some posters seemed to feel that it was questionable why the a previous owner would go to the trouble and huge expense of a conversion like this unless the owner was hiding something. That may not be the case, though. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that....
If I was interested in a car like this (I definitely would NOT be...) , I certainly would not pay full market value since the update mods will devalue the car to most knowledgeable GT3 buyers, who generally are a very picky group. And I would also obtain Carfax AND AutoCheck reports with the understanding that if the car actually had been seriously damaged but not paid for by an insurance carrier, that nothing negative may show up on either report.
Here's the eBay ad for the one that was being discussed on the "997 GT3/RS Cars for Sale" thread.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Porsche...p2047675.l2557
My recollection is that the car had sustained minor damage to the front bumper and that the selling dealer denied that the .2 mods were done as a result of a "serious" accident. But some posters seemed to feel that it was questionable why the a previous owner would go to the trouble and huge expense of a conversion like this unless the owner was hiding something. That may not be the case, though. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that....
If I was interested in a car like this (I definitely would NOT be...) , I certainly would not pay full market value since the update mods will devalue the car to most knowledgeable GT3 buyers, who generally are a very picky group. And I would also obtain Carfax AND AutoCheck reports with the understanding that if the car actually had been seriously damaged but not paid for by an insurance carrier, that nothing negative may show up on either report.
Here's the eBay ad for the one that was being discussed on the "997 GT3/RS Cars for Sale" thread.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Porsche...p2047675.l2557
09-04-2016, 04:58 PM
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Track Day
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There is another post on here with some conversation regarding a 997.1 GT3 that is for sale on ebay that sounds like the car you are describing.
My recollection is that the car had sustained minor damage to the front bumper and that the selling dealer denied that the .2 mods were done as a result of a "serious" accident. But some posters seemed to feel that it was questionable why the a previous owner would go to the trouble and huge expense of a conversion like this unless the owner was hiding something. That may not be the case, though. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that....
If I was interested in a car like this (I definitely would NOT be...) , I certainly would not pay full market value since the update mods will devalue the car to most knowledgeable GT3 buyers, who generally are a very picky group. And I would also obtain Carfax AND AutoCheck reports with the understanding that if the car actually had been seriously damaged but not paid for by an insurance carrier, that nothing negative may show up on either report.
Here's the eBay ad for the one that was being discussed on the "997 GT3/RS Cars for Sale" thread.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Porsche...p2047675.l2557
My recollection is that the car had sustained minor damage to the front bumper and that the selling dealer denied that the .2 mods were done as a result of a "serious" accident. But some posters seemed to feel that it was questionable why the a previous owner would go to the trouble and huge expense of a conversion like this unless the owner was hiding something. That may not be the case, though. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that....
If I was interested in a car like this (I definitely would NOT be...) , I certainly would not pay full market value since the update mods will devalue the car to most knowledgeable GT3 buyers, who generally are a very picky group. And I would also obtain Carfax AND AutoCheck reports with the understanding that if the car actually had been seriously damaged but not paid for by an insurance carrier, that nothing negative may show up on either report.
Here's the eBay ad for the one that was being discussed on the "997 GT3/RS Cars for Sale" thread.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Porsche...p2047675.l2557
Thanks for the reply. That is the car. There is a deer strike on the Carfax (haven't checked AutoCheck yet), but was supposedly after the conversion. Story is owner hit a deer that was already dead in the road and car ran over it causing minor underbelly damage. I saw car and drove it and it's very clean. I need to get more details on exactly what was damaged and who did the repairs, but was interested in people's views on the .2 upgrades.
Assuming repairs done properly and priced right, what keeps you from being interested. I understand a purist 's viewpoint that it diminishes the value and makes it more of a driver's car. I assume it will also have an impact on resale value down the line.
I looked for a thread on this car and will go back and check again.
09-04-2016, 05:55 PM
#4
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I suppose that since I'm driving my 22nd Porsche, yes, I am a purist. Most GT3 owners tend to lean in this direction as every GT3 version is a very special Porsche. In the GT3 world, major modifications like a complete body transformation from a .1 to a .2 are not considered desirable because it is likely that a well-kept 997 GT3 in it's as-built form will be considered to be collectible in the future - the RS versions in particular which are already trading above their original MSRP and WAY above if they have the Paint to Sample option.
The 997 GT3 and RS are the last GT3 versions equipped with the Hans Mezger-designed "motorsports" engine and a manual gearbox. Unlike the newer, more complex 991 generation GT3 variants, the 997 has hydraulic, rather than electric power steering and does not have rear wheel steering, along with other numerous detail differences. Bottom line - the 997 GT3 is a less complex and arguably a much more involving GT3. But the 991 GT3's are quicker and faster.
Driver involvement and relative simplicity seem to be important factors for purist drivers and collectors. A few examples of this are the 1973 Carrera RS 2.7 (particularly the Lightweight version), the 993 GT2RS and even 1993-94 RS Americas, the really nice unmodified ones having asking prices beyond 2X their original MSRP.
Collector prices tend to drive the market and those guys demand 100% originality, perfection and (usually) extremely low mileage. A standard GT3 is nowhere near as collectible as the same-year RS version but their relative rarity as compared to a 911 Carrera along with the relatively few really stunning GT3's on the market at a given time keep the prices on them higher than you might expect. But even relatively small stuff like having aftermarket wheels instead of the OEM ones do have a negative effect on their market value, as does an accident history - things I can vouch for from personal experience.
As with any used vehicle, a 997 GT3 or GT3RS is worth what a buyer is willing to pay because of supply and demand. If the .1 to .2 body change doesn't bother you - go for it! But don't expect a full market price when you decide to sell unless you are fortunate to find a buyer who loves the car as is.
So FWIW, that's my take. Others on here may disagree, which is what makes this forum so entertaining!
The 997 GT3 and RS are the last GT3 versions equipped with the Hans Mezger-designed "motorsports" engine and a manual gearbox. Unlike the newer, more complex 991 generation GT3 variants, the 997 has hydraulic, rather than electric power steering and does not have rear wheel steering, along with other numerous detail differences. Bottom line - the 997 GT3 is a less complex and arguably a much more involving GT3. But the 991 GT3's are quicker and faster.
Driver involvement and relative simplicity seem to be important factors for purist drivers and collectors. A few examples of this are the 1973 Carrera RS 2.7 (particularly the Lightweight version), the 993 GT2RS and even 1993-94 RS Americas, the really nice unmodified ones having asking prices beyond 2X their original MSRP.
Collector prices tend to drive the market and those guys demand 100% originality, perfection and (usually) extremely low mileage. A standard GT3 is nowhere near as collectible as the same-year RS version but their relative rarity as compared to a 911 Carrera along with the relatively few really stunning GT3's on the market at a given time keep the prices on them higher than you might expect. But even relatively small stuff like having aftermarket wheels instead of the OEM ones do have a negative effect on their market value, as does an accident history - things I can vouch for from personal experience.
As with any used vehicle, a 997 GT3 or GT3RS is worth what a buyer is willing to pay because of supply and demand. If the .1 to .2 body change doesn't bother you - go for it! But don't expect a full market price when you decide to sell unless you are fortunate to find a buyer who loves the car as is.
So FWIW, that's my take. Others on here may disagree, which is what makes this forum so entertaining!
Last edited by jackb911; 09-04-2016 at 07:20 PM.
09-04-2016, 06:07 PM
#5
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I suppose that since I'm driving my 22nd Porsche, yes, I am a purist. Most GT3 GT3 owners tend to lean in this direction as every GT3 version is a very special Porsche. In the GT3 world, major modifications like a complete body transformation from a .1 to a .2 are not considered desirable because it is likely that a well-kept 997 GT3 in it's as-built form will be considered to be collectible in the future - the RS versions in particular which are already trading above their original MSRP and WAY above if they have the Paint to Sample option.
The 997 GT3 and RS are the last GT3 versions equipped with the Hans Mezger-designed "motorsports" engine and a manual gearbox. Unlike the newer, more complex 991 generation GT3 variants, the 997 has hydraulic, rather than electric power steering and does not have rear wheel steering, along with other numerous detail difference. Bottom line - the 997 GT3 is a less complex and arguably a much more involving GT3. But the 991 GT3's are quicker and faster.
Driver involvement and relative simplicity seem to be important factors for purist drivers and collectors. A few examples of this are the 1973 Carrera RS 2.7 (particularly the Lightweight version), the 993 GT2RS and even 1993-94 RS Americas, the really nice unmodified ones having asking prices beyond 2X their original MSRP.
Collector prices tend to drive the market and those guys demand 100% originality, perfection and (usually) extremely low mileage. A standard GT3 is nowhere near as collectible as the same-year RS version but their relative rarity as compared to a 911 Carrera along with the relatively few really stunning GT3's on the market at a given time keep the prices on them higher than you might expect. But even relatively small stuff like having aftermarket wheels instead of the OEM ones do have a negative effect on their market value, as does an accident history - things I can vouch for from personal experience.
As with any used vehicle, a 997 GT3 or GT3RS is worth what a buyer is willing to pay because of supply and demand. If the .1 to .2 body change doesn't bother you - go for it! But don't expect a full market price when you decide to sell unless you are fortunate to find a buyer who loves the car as is.
So FWIW, that's my take. Others on here may disagree, which is what makes this forum so entertaining!
The 997 GT3 and RS are the last GT3 versions equipped with the Hans Mezger-designed "motorsports" engine and a manual gearbox. Unlike the newer, more complex 991 generation GT3 variants, the 997 has hydraulic, rather than electric power steering and does not have rear wheel steering, along with other numerous detail difference. Bottom line - the 997 GT3 is a less complex and arguably a much more involving GT3. But the 991 GT3's are quicker and faster.
Driver involvement and relative simplicity seem to be important factors for purist drivers and collectors. A few examples of this are the 1973 Carrera RS 2.7 (particularly the Lightweight version), the 993 GT2RS and even 1993-94 RS Americas, the really nice unmodified ones having asking prices beyond 2X their original MSRP.
Collector prices tend to drive the market and those guys demand 100% originality, perfection and (usually) extremely low mileage. A standard GT3 is nowhere near as collectible as the same-year RS version but their relative rarity as compared to a 911 Carrera along with the relatively few really stunning GT3's on the market at a given time keep the prices on them higher than you might expect. But even relatively small stuff like having aftermarket wheels instead of the OEM ones do have a negative effect on their market value, as does an accident history - things I can vouch for from personal experience.
As with any used vehicle, a 997 GT3 or GT3RS is worth what a buyer is willing to pay because of supply and demand. If the .1 to .2 body change doesn't bother you - go for it! But don't expect a full market price when you decide to sell unless you are fortunate to find a buyer who loves the car as is.
So FWIW, that's my take. Others on here may disagree, which is what makes this forum so entertaining!
09-05-2016, 12:01 AM
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09-05-2016, 10:20 AM
#8
Track Day
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There is another post on here with some conversation regarding a 997.1 GT3 that is for sale on ebay that sounds like the car you are describing.
My recollection is that the car had sustained minor damage to the front bumper and that the selling dealer denied that the .2 mods were done as a result of a "serious" accident. But some posters seemed to feel that it was questionable why the a previous owner would go to the trouble and huge expense of a conversion like this unless the owner was hiding something. That may not be the case, though. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that....
If I was interested in a car like this (I definitely would NOT be...) , I certainly would not pay full market value since the update mods will devalue the car to most knowledgeable GT3 buyers, who generally are a very picky group. And I would also obtain Carfax AND AutoCheck reports with the understanding that if the car actually had been seriously damaged but not paid for by an insurance carrier, that nothing negative may show up on either report.
Here's the eBay ad for the one that was being discussed on the "997 GT3/RS Cars for Sale" thread.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Porsche...p2047675.l2557
My recollection is that the car had sustained minor damage to the front bumper and that the selling dealer denied that the .2 mods were done as a result of a "serious" accident. But some posters seemed to feel that it was questionable why the a previous owner would go to the trouble and huge expense of a conversion like this unless the owner was hiding something. That may not be the case, though. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that....
If I was interested in a car like this (I definitely would NOT be...) , I certainly would not pay full market value since the update mods will devalue the car to most knowledgeable GT3 buyers, who generally are a very picky group. And I would also obtain Carfax AND AutoCheck reports with the understanding that if the car actually had been seriously damaged but not paid for by an insurance carrier, that nothing negative may show up on either report.
Here's the eBay ad for the one that was being discussed on the "997 GT3/RS Cars for Sale" thread.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Porsche...p2047675.l2557
I suppose that since I'm driving my 22nd Porsche, yes, I am a purist. Most GT3 owners tend to lean in this direction as every GT3 version is a very special Porsche. In the GT3 world, major modifications like a complete body transformation from a .1 to a .2 are not considered desirable because it is likely that a well-kept 997 GT3 in it's as-built form will be considered to be collectible in the future - the RS versions in particular which are already trading above their original MSRP and WAY above if they have the Paint to Sample option.
The 997 GT3 and RS are the last GT3 versions equipped with the Hans Mezger-designed "motorsports" engine and a manual gearbox. Unlike the newer, more complex 991 generation GT3 variants, the 997 has hydraulic, rather than electric power steering and does not have rear wheel steering, along with other numerous detail differences. Bottom line - the 997 GT3 is a less complex and arguably a much more involving GT3. But the 991 GT3's are quicker and faster.
Driver involvement and relative simplicity seem to be important factors for purist drivers and collectors. A few examples of this are the 1973 Carrera RS 2.7 (particularly the Lightweight version), the 993 GT2RS and even 1993-94 RS Americas, the really nice unmodified ones having asking prices beyond 2X their original MSRP.
Collector prices tend to drive the market and those guys demand 100% originality, perfection and (usually) extremely low mileage. A standard GT3 is nowhere near as collectible as the same-year RS version but their relative rarity as compared to a 911 Carrera along with the relatively few really stunning GT3's on the market at a given time keep the prices on them higher than you might expect. But even relatively small stuff like having aftermarket wheels instead of the OEM ones do have a negative effect on their market value, as does an accident history - things I can vouch for from personal experience.
As with any used vehicle, a 997 GT3 or GT3RS is worth what a buyer is willing to pay because of supply and demand. If the .1 to .2 body change doesn't bother you - go for it! But don't expect a full market price when you decide to sell unless you are fortunate to find a buyer who loves the car as is.
So FWIW, that's my take. Others on here may disagree, which is what makes this forum so entertaining!
The 997 GT3 and RS are the last GT3 versions equipped with the Hans Mezger-designed "motorsports" engine and a manual gearbox. Unlike the newer, more complex 991 generation GT3 variants, the 997 has hydraulic, rather than electric power steering and does not have rear wheel steering, along with other numerous detail differences. Bottom line - the 997 GT3 is a less complex and arguably a much more involving GT3. But the 991 GT3's are quicker and faster.
Driver involvement and relative simplicity seem to be important factors for purist drivers and collectors. A few examples of this are the 1973 Carrera RS 2.7 (particularly the Lightweight version), the 993 GT2RS and even 1993-94 RS Americas, the really nice unmodified ones having asking prices beyond 2X their original MSRP.
Collector prices tend to drive the market and those guys demand 100% originality, perfection and (usually) extremely low mileage. A standard GT3 is nowhere near as collectible as the same-year RS version but their relative rarity as compared to a 911 Carrera along with the relatively few really stunning GT3's on the market at a given time keep the prices on them higher than you might expect. But even relatively small stuff like having aftermarket wheels instead of the OEM ones do have a negative effect on their market value, as does an accident history - things I can vouch for from personal experience.
As with any used vehicle, a 997 GT3 or GT3RS is worth what a buyer is willing to pay because of supply and demand. If the .1 to .2 body change doesn't bother you - go for it! But don't expect a full market price when you decide to sell unless you are fortunate to find a buyer who loves the car as is.
So FWIW, that's my take. Others on here may disagree, which is what makes this forum so entertaining!
09-05-2016, 06:41 PM
#10
Track Day
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Decided to listen to the angel, let this one go to someone else and keep looking (isn't the chase almost as exciting as driving one) but I will get a PPI from a reputable shop when I find one I'm ready to pull the trigger on.
Thanks for for your input.
Thanks for for your input.