Porsche Re-introducing Manual 911 GT3's?
05-23-2015, 01:40 AM
#16
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Its possible…but just because AP says so, it doesn't necessarily mean it will happen.
"Good news for manual gearbox fans, too. While the current 911 GT3 and GT3 RS are dual-clutch PDK paddleshift only, Preuninger suggests future models will offer a conventional three-pedal option."
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-new...wer-arms-race/
"Good news for manual gearbox fans, too. While the current 911 GT3 and GT3 RS are dual-clutch PDK paddleshift only, Preuninger suggests future models will offer a conventional three-pedal option."
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-new...wer-arms-race/
I have a very good source who is tight with the Porsche manufacturing community and he claims Porsche is looking to re-introduce manual GT3's? Has anyone else heard this rumor? This would obviously not be great news for those over-paying for 2011 and or 2010 manual GT3's?
Regardless, love the GT3 and GT3 RS as the highest form of 911 driving enjoyment.
Regardless, love the GT3 and GT3 RS as the highest form of 911 driving enjoyment.
Once you drive one of these manual GT3s there is no such thing as "overpayment." Just "why didn't I get this sooner?"
I'd like to see what the manual gearbox would be for these new cars. Because the current manual is a repacked PDK box and it shows. Just because a car has 3 pedals doesn't mean it's good.
997 is great b/c it's a PACKAGE. not the H pattern stick. kenworth truck has stick with 18 speed if shifting by hand is so cool, try that. it's not easy to master shifting without clutch!
the right way is to get a 7gt enjoy what's great about it. then add a 991gt and see how it differs.
arguing red is better then white wine is pointless.... life is too short to have that limit.
oh and the GT4 is the new GT3 argument....
price wise GT4 is similar to 2004 6gt3
i track gT3 and races cayman
they dont drive the same.
each has forte. it's not one or another.....
when i goto dinner, i order ALL the appetizers and ALL the desserts. no, i am not kidding. why limit your horizon.
chill and drive.
05-23-2015, 02:50 AM
#17
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my take on what was said on the whole manual transmission thing is that Porsche gave the GT4 a manual to maintain the manual image and to shut up the masses. And future models with still see manual options. Perhaps not the GT3, but they will have cars with manuals if that is what you want.... caymans, carrera etc..
I do not think we will see a new manual GT3 for a long time or at least until the automanual is played out amongst manufactures. (if that day ever comes) Once manufacturers start to notice their sales drop on automanuals, they might offer the "slower" manual transmission as a "nostalgia" marketing tool.
Imagine ferrari and porsche making a manual only GT car in the future. It could happen if the automanual sceene fizzles out.
In regards to 997GT3 values, it will take more then a manual tranny in the next GT3 to affect the 997 market....
the 997GT3 is the last "classic" 911. It is a simple car when compared to the 991GT3.
I do not think we will see a new manual GT3 for a long time or at least until the automanual is played out amongst manufactures. (if that day ever comes) Once manufacturers start to notice their sales drop on automanuals, they might offer the "slower" manual transmission as a "nostalgia" marketing tool.
Imagine ferrari and porsche making a manual only GT car in the future. It could happen if the automanual sceene fizzles out.
In regards to 997GT3 values, it will take more then a manual tranny in the next GT3 to affect the 997 market....
the 997GT3 is the last "classic" 911. It is a simple car when compared to the 991GT3.
05-23-2015, 02:57 AM
#18
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^ and you should stop hogging all the 7GT/RS!
and leave me some 964 too
and leave me some 964 too
05-23-2015, 11:01 AM
#19
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GT4 is the new GT3 in spirit because of cost simple and manual.
But it will never drive like a 911 from the analogue era.
997 is the last analogue one but if you want the real pure 911 feel you need 964.
A OEM .1 GT3(RS) is now 8 years old on a 10 year old platform and starts to feel a bit clunky. But that's OK because all classics do and the 997 is a classic 10 years ahead of the game. In my hands is feels like a faster bigger heavier 964. Same thing.
If you love 997GT3 you need to be buying 964's now.
I'll be hunting for a 997 as soon as a next market collapses.
Not sure if I would even pick a 991Manual if available any more, I will find out in 6 months.
It's not that kind of car anymore. Different way of fun on the track and compared to anything else with warranty still king of the track I think, both in driving pleasure and lap time. Next model will be TT, hybrid etc. Etc. I can't see anyone being able to turn off the nannies on those anymore. The 991RS can still be completely "off".
The GT4 gives you that fun track toy with warranty car for not much money, but I'm not sold over getting it over a well setup 964 for example because I don't love mid engine. Yet.
Going to Atlanta next week to drive CaymanS to get a feel for OEM manual.
I suspect the GT4 to be GT3.1 like, except no 911 feel and a bit tamed until the GT4RS arrives. Than off course there is the issue of fitting in a Cayman.
But it will never drive like a 911 from the analogue era.
997 is the last analogue one but if you want the real pure 911 feel you need 964.
A OEM .1 GT3(RS) is now 8 years old on a 10 year old platform and starts to feel a bit clunky. But that's OK because all classics do and the 997 is a classic 10 years ahead of the game. In my hands is feels like a faster bigger heavier 964. Same thing.
If you love 997GT3 you need to be buying 964's now.
I'll be hunting for a 997 as soon as a next market collapses.
Not sure if I would even pick a 991Manual if available any more, I will find out in 6 months.
It's not that kind of car anymore. Different way of fun on the track and compared to anything else with warranty still king of the track I think, both in driving pleasure and lap time. Next model will be TT, hybrid etc. Etc. I can't see anyone being able to turn off the nannies on those anymore. The 991RS can still be completely "off".
The GT4 gives you that fun track toy with warranty car for not much money, but I'm not sold over getting it over a well setup 964 for example because I don't love mid engine. Yet.
Going to Atlanta next week to drive CaymanS to get a feel for OEM manual.
I suspect the GT4 to be GT3.1 like, except no 911 feel and a bit tamed until the GT4RS arrives. Than off course there is the issue of fitting in a Cayman.
Last edited by TRAKCAR; 05-24-2015 at 12:52 AM.
05-23-2015, 11:12 AM
#20
Nordschleife Master
This. The current 991 Aisin gearbox is no great engineering feat. It is a cost saving attempt at the expense of performance and feel. While the little black box is an interesting piece of engineering, I think the whole approach half baked. Let's hope this new gt3 gets a proper h-pattern box. Even the 997 Aisin would be acceptable. That's actually a nice gearbox.
05-23-2015, 11:13 AM
#21
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^ do NOT listen to this dutchman.
964 is pos
sell yours to me. i do what i can to help you get ride of it.
964 is pos
sell yours to me. i do what i can to help you get ride of it.
05-23-2015, 11:18 AM
#22
Nordschleife Master
05-23-2015, 06:46 PM
#23
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Matt u posted faster than i did
Dutchman is "trakcar" and we all
know he's crazy
Dutchman is "trakcar" and we all
know he's crazy
05-24-2015, 10:04 AM
#24
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What I have been saying all along. The bigger question though that can never be answered is "Would have the market gone up like it did if the stop sale never have happened in the first place"?
Last edited by Tacet-Conundrum; 05-29-2015 at 01:17 PM.
05-25-2015, 03:16 PM
#26
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^ the drugs are starting to work....
05-26-2015, 07:26 AM
#29
For me, and perhaps some others on here, the lack of a manual trans on the 991 version isn't the only reason that the 997 versions are more desirable. It's what the 997's DON'T have...
1.) Size. Bigger isn't necessarily better.
2.) The Panamera-inspired interior. On a GT3?
3.) The 9A1 engine, which lacks top-level motorsports cred. Rolex GX and Continental Tire Challenge GS classes aren't exactly top level, IMO.
4.) Rear wheel steering.
5.) Electric power steering
6.) 20" wheels. Probably needed because of 1.)
7.) More intrusive nannies
I'll omit the connecting rod bolt / engine fire issue because that has become old news. It's sad that some of those cars that had engine replacements now have branded titles. That makes no sense and besmirches the GT3 image.
Please understand that I'm not dissing the 991 version. If that one floats your boat, great. Yes, I have driven one. My point is that it's not all about PDK-only. There is a certain type of Porsche enthusiast that embraces the rawness and "special-ness" of what is marketed as the street version of a motorsports car. The Sport Purpose equipped 911's, the air-cooled RS Porsches, including the 2.7. 3.0 and the 964 and 993 RS versions which weren't offered here thanks to D.C. politicians. The 996 GT3 was as close as we got here. The 997 GT3's were less hardcore but still very involving machines as compared to a normal 997.
With all that said, I also understand marketing and the concept of profit. And I understand that Porsche's target GT3 customer is markedly different than it used to be...kudos to them for understanding what their buyer wants at the price point they are demanding. It's just sad that they refuse to offer a properly sized, decontented version for the Porsche enthusiasts who remember how much fun a lightweight, stripped-down Porsche can be.
The Cayman GT4 is a step in the right direction but why not 400+ HP so it can be taken seriously by the hardcore guys? Because these guys are no longer the target market! The hardcore guys have to buy a GT4 or GT3 or GT3RS and spend $20K or more in upgrades to turn it into what they want/need it to be.
Rant over, hopefully I didn't seriously offend anyone here as I was just expressing a dissenting opinion.
1.) Size. Bigger isn't necessarily better.
2.) The Panamera-inspired interior. On a GT3?
3.) The 9A1 engine, which lacks top-level motorsports cred. Rolex GX and Continental Tire Challenge GS classes aren't exactly top level, IMO.
4.) Rear wheel steering.
5.) Electric power steering
6.) 20" wheels. Probably needed because of 1.)
7.) More intrusive nannies
I'll omit the connecting rod bolt / engine fire issue because that has become old news. It's sad that some of those cars that had engine replacements now have branded titles. That makes no sense and besmirches the GT3 image.
Please understand that I'm not dissing the 991 version. If that one floats your boat, great. Yes, I have driven one. My point is that it's not all about PDK-only. There is a certain type of Porsche enthusiast that embraces the rawness and "special-ness" of what is marketed as the street version of a motorsports car. The Sport Purpose equipped 911's, the air-cooled RS Porsches, including the 2.7. 3.0 and the 964 and 993 RS versions which weren't offered here thanks to D.C. politicians. The 996 GT3 was as close as we got here. The 997 GT3's were less hardcore but still very involving machines as compared to a normal 997.
With all that said, I also understand marketing and the concept of profit. And I understand that Porsche's target GT3 customer is markedly different than it used to be...kudos to them for understanding what their buyer wants at the price point they are demanding. It's just sad that they refuse to offer a properly sized, decontented version for the Porsche enthusiasts who remember how much fun a lightweight, stripped-down Porsche can be.
The Cayman GT4 is a step in the right direction but why not 400+ HP so it can be taken seriously by the hardcore guys? Because these guys are no longer the target market! The hardcore guys have to buy a GT4 or GT3 or GT3RS and spend $20K or more in upgrades to turn it into what they want/need it to be.
Rant over, hopefully I didn't seriously offend anyone here as I was just expressing a dissenting opinion.
05-26-2015, 10:08 AM
#30
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f4 plt, in the aircraft world, I imagine that a Phantom is more engaging to fly than a Raptor even though the Raptor is the faster machine.
Pilot "engagement" may explain why many former military pilots love flying the old WWII warbirds.
How about thee analogies?...
'73 911RS = P-51 Mustang
930 Turbo = F-86 Sabre
964RS = F-101 Voodoo
997 GT3/RS = F-4 Phantom
F-22 Raptor = 991 GT3
I'm Vietnam era ex-military as well (Army Aviation). Thank you for your service.
Pilot "engagement" may explain why many former military pilots love flying the old WWII warbirds.
How about thee analogies?...
'73 911RS = P-51 Mustang
930 Turbo = F-86 Sabre
964RS = F-101 Voodoo
997 GT3/RS = F-4 Phantom
F-22 Raptor = 991 GT3
I'm Vietnam era ex-military as well (Army Aviation). Thank you for your service.