GT2: 993 vs. 997 as a value study but NOT another "Are we in a bubble" discussion
03-14-2015, 05:47 PM
#46
997 GT3
Where is the market going with all these Porsches?
It appears that the prices keep rising and people keep buying.
Is now a time to buy?
Will the market go down?
I am looking at adding a few more to the collection but am I crazy to pay these prices? They have doubled in two years some of them...
It appears that the prices keep rising and people keep buying.
Is now a time to buy?
Will the market go down?
I am looking at adding a few more to the collection but am I crazy to pay these prices? They have doubled in two years some of them...
I'm not a collector. But if I was, I would be buying - take this with a salt shaker, it's from a financier's perspective.
03-14-2015, 06:12 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
Porsche's were due for a correction (higher) Some more than others.
Isn't it funny how now no matter what 911 you have you are a winner? (Almost) early, SC, carrera, 964, 993, blah blah blah
Most of the stuff out there being peddled as blue chips are nothing but polishes turds and used cars.
I think the market is full at the moment so I would disagree with my friend above.
We have also been starved for product.
After the jump the 993 flatlined (if not came down a little). The gt2 version of course is a different thing but that basically wasn't even a production car.
I would be buying other cars right now. Like normaly aspirated ferraris (Scuderia, CS) and nice American muscle that has been forgotten for a bit...this is only if you already have a 997 gt3 in your garage of course!
Isn't it funny how now no matter what 911 you have you are a winner? (Almost) early, SC, carrera, 964, 993, blah blah blah
Most of the stuff out there being peddled as blue chips are nothing but polishes turds and used cars.
I think the market is full at the moment so I would disagree with my friend above.
We have also been starved for product.
After the jump the 993 flatlined (if not came down a little). The gt2 version of course is a different thing but that basically wasn't even a production car.
I would be buying other cars right now. Like normaly aspirated ferraris (Scuderia, CS) and nice American muscle that has been forgotten for a bit...this is only if you already have a 997 gt3 in your garage of course!
03-15-2015, 02:30 PM
#48
Burning Brakes
It's not just Porsches though. Most classic cars have gone through the roof these past 7 years. I think a lot has to do with the stock market performing so well (FED, 0% rates). I don't think it's a coincidence.
03-16-2015, 09:08 AM
#49
Racer
you can draw some pretty convincing trends by looking at high end homes and apartments, high end vacations, high end yachts, and all kinds of luxury toys, including cars, including Porsches… there's no reason for ALL Porsches to go up, if it were purely collector driven demand, some would appreciate a lot, but most would depreciate… not the case… I can understand why CGTs have gone up from low 3s to mid 5s in less than 3 years… I can understand less why GT3s up at least 50% from 2 years ago… they are not a collectors car unless it's a 4.0 or a GT2RS, but an average GT3 is not that rare…
03-16-2015, 01:20 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
03-17-2015, 11:33 AM
#51
Did anyone else see that a 1 of 20 manual 599 GTB sold for $680k at auction? Crazy, pre auction estimates were $200-275k.
Not sure if this is AUS$ or US$ ...
The car was 'nothing special' just a clean, low mileage 599 GTB that happened to have a gated manual vs an F1. I remember trying to find a 575M manual or a 599 manual, and they were hard to find, but did not command a significant premium over the F1 model.......
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2998745&type=1
Not sure if this is AUS$ or US$ ...
The car was 'nothing special' just a clean, low mileage 599 GTB that happened to have a gated manual vs an F1. I remember trying to find a 575M manual or a 599 manual, and they were hard to find, but did not command a significant premium over the F1 model.......
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2998745&type=1
03-17-2015, 01:38 PM
#52
Did anyone else see that a 1 of 20 manual 599 GTB sold for $680k at auction? Crazy, pre auction estimates were $200-275k.
Not sure if this is AUS$ or US$ ...
The car was 'nothing special' just a clean, low mileage 599 GTB that happened to have a gated manual vs an F1. I remember trying to find a 575M manual or a 599 manual, and they were hard to find, but did not command a significant premium over the F1 model.......
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2998745&type=1
Not sure if this is AUS$ or US$ ...
The car was 'nothing special' just a clean, low mileage 599 GTB that happened to have a gated manual vs an F1. I remember trying to find a 575M manual or a 599 manual, and they were hard to find, but did not command a significant premium over the F1 model.......
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2998745&type=1
03-17-2015, 08:06 PM
#53
Burning Brakes
Did anyone else see that a 1 of 20 manual 599 GTB sold for $680k at auction? Crazy, pre auction estimates were $200-275k. Not sure if this is AUS$ or US$ ... The car was 'nothing special' just a clean, low mileage 599 GTB that happened to have a gated manual vs an F1. I remember trying to find a 575M manual or a 599 manual, and they were hard to find, but did not command a significant premium over the F1 model....... https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2998745&type=1
The Ferrari guys chasing manuals that suck to begin with. I helped launch the 599. It's fat and boring. Mated with a gated shifter even worse.
Gosh I wish I could buy puts on some of these "sub markets"
03-18-2015, 03:56 AM
#54
To the OP, I tip my Kombucha to you.
I am fond of these cars and I flog them on the track. I risk my life in them at 150 mph and later gaze upon them in stillness in a quiet garage with the setting sunlight streaming in upon them in the shadows.
While I empathize with the comments decrying using these vehicles as intended, rather than just storing them, our lives are short and these are high-quality, craftsmen-made works of functional art.
There is as much art in the aerodynamic aesthetics and the engine, suspension, interior design, and tuning of the exhaust note. These cars are a sensual Gestalt. Who doesn't have memories of the smell of leather from the 1980's Carreras or SC's? How about the prominent, vault-like "thunk" of the door shutting on the 901s, the 911s, 964s, and 993s that faded with the lighter 996 and 997 doors? Things evolve.
Someone needs to save a few prime examples of these sources of joy to many of us lucky folks for our children and grandchildren to get a whiff of the leather we used to ride in at 150 mph on the track. They should get a chance to hear the "thunk" that we all once loved.
There are enough of these cars driven beyond their limits and being pranged every month by overzealous, undertrained drivers (and very good ones, too) to warrant a few collectors diapering and Opti-coating them to balance out the Yin and Yang.
Thanks again.
Just don't let Cameron and Ferris try to roll the speedo back in your Highland Park glass garage.
I am fond of these cars and I flog them on the track. I risk my life in them at 150 mph and later gaze upon them in stillness in a quiet garage with the setting sunlight streaming in upon them in the shadows.
While I empathize with the comments decrying using these vehicles as intended, rather than just storing them, our lives are short and these are high-quality, craftsmen-made works of functional art.
There is as much art in the aerodynamic aesthetics and the engine, suspension, interior design, and tuning of the exhaust note. These cars are a sensual Gestalt. Who doesn't have memories of the smell of leather from the 1980's Carreras or SC's? How about the prominent, vault-like "thunk" of the door shutting on the 901s, the 911s, 964s, and 993s that faded with the lighter 996 and 997 doors? Things evolve.
Someone needs to save a few prime examples of these sources of joy to many of us lucky folks for our children and grandchildren to get a whiff of the leather we used to ride in at 150 mph on the track. They should get a chance to hear the "thunk" that we all once loved.
There are enough of these cars driven beyond their limits and being pranged every month by overzealous, undertrained drivers (and very good ones, too) to warrant a few collectors diapering and Opti-coating them to balance out the Yin and Yang.
Thanks again.
Just don't let Cameron and Ferris try to roll the speedo back in your Highland Park glass garage.
03-18-2015, 08:33 AM
#55
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I like this post.
To the OP, I tip my Kombucha to you.
I am fond of these cars and I flog them on the track. I risk my life in them at 150 mph and later gaze upon them in stillness in a quiet garage with the setting sunlight streaming in upon them in the shadows.
While I empathize with the comments decrying using these vehicles as intended, rather than just storing them, our lives are short and these are high-quality, craftsmen-made works of functional art.
There is as much art in the aerodynamic aesthetics and the engine, suspension, interior design, and tuning of the exhaust note. These cars are a sensual Gestalt. Who doesn't have memories of the smell of leather from the 1980's Carreras or SC's? How about the prominent, vault-like "thunk" of the door shutting on the 901s, the 911s, 964s, and 993s that faded with the lighter 996 and 997 doors? Things evolve.
Someone needs to save a few prime examples of these sources of joy to many of us lucky folks for our children and grandchildren to get a whiff of the leather we used to ride in at 150 mph on the track. They should get a chance to hear the "thunk" that we all once loved.
There are enough of these cars driven beyond their limits and being pranged every month by overzealous, undertrained drivers (and very good ones, too) to warrant a few collectors diapering and Opti-coating them to balance out the Yin and Yang.
Thanks again.
Just don't let Cameron and Ferris try to roll the speedo back in your Highland Park glass garage.
I am fond of these cars and I flog them on the track. I risk my life in them at 150 mph and later gaze upon them in stillness in a quiet garage with the setting sunlight streaming in upon them in the shadows.
While I empathize with the comments decrying using these vehicles as intended, rather than just storing them, our lives are short and these are high-quality, craftsmen-made works of functional art.
There is as much art in the aerodynamic aesthetics and the engine, suspension, interior design, and tuning of the exhaust note. These cars are a sensual Gestalt. Who doesn't have memories of the smell of leather from the 1980's Carreras or SC's? How about the prominent, vault-like "thunk" of the door shutting on the 901s, the 911s, 964s, and 993s that faded with the lighter 996 and 997 doors? Things evolve.
Someone needs to save a few prime examples of these sources of joy to many of us lucky folks for our children and grandchildren to get a whiff of the leather we used to ride in at 150 mph on the track. They should get a chance to hear the "thunk" that we all once loved.
There are enough of these cars driven beyond their limits and being pranged every month by overzealous, undertrained drivers (and very good ones, too) to warrant a few collectors diapering and Opti-coating them to balance out the Yin and Yang.
Thanks again.
Just don't let Cameron and Ferris try to roll the speedo back in your Highland Park glass garage.
03-18-2015, 09:58 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
If any of it matters, you are a speculator, not a collector. Not that there is anything wrong with that...
Edit: That 599GTB result is insane, by the way. Especially considering the 1 of 20 is just "believed to be" and only represents US cars, according to the link. Over triple the car I had an opportunity to buy 1.5 years ago, but did not seriously consider because it was red.
Last edited by Alan Smithee; 03-18-2015 at 10:19 AM.
03-19-2015, 04:05 AM
#58
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If you are truly collecting, none of it matters.
If any of it matters, you are a speculator, not a collector. Not that there is anything wrong with that...
Edit: That 599GTB result is insane, by the way. Especially considering the 1 of 20 is just "believed to be" and only represents US cars, according to the link. Over triple the car I had an opportunity to buy 1.5 years ago, but did not seriously consider because it was red.
If any of it matters, you are a speculator, not a collector. Not that there is anything wrong with that...
Edit: That 599GTB result is insane, by the way. Especially considering the 1 of 20 is just "believed to be" and only represents US cars, according to the link. Over triple the car I had an opportunity to buy 1.5 years ago, but did not seriously consider because it was red.
But really, i just dont want to overpay right now to add more 911s to my collection of drivers, so i am very wary... espeically where i am buying with the .80 cdn dollar....
03-19-2015, 05:55 PM
#59
Track Day
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The manual Ferrari 599 auction result is really crazy.
Maybe an insider tip is the last manual natural aspirated V8 Ferrari, the manual F430.
It´s still cheap and as far as I know maximum 2% of the F430 are manual, so much less then 500 cars...
Now Ferrari build only turbo charged automatic transmission V8´s.
I expect the manual F430 will soon come in collectors hands and make also a price jump like the manual 599, but maybe not so big...
Maybe an insider tip is the last manual natural aspirated V8 Ferrari, the manual F430.
It´s still cheap and as far as I know maximum 2% of the F430 are manual, so much less then 500 cars...
Now Ferrari build only turbo charged automatic transmission V8´s.
I expect the manual F430 will soon come in collectors hands and make also a price jump like the manual 599, but maybe not so big...
03-19-2015, 07:18 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Hopefully the F430 does and, selfishly of course, brings the RWD MT Gallardo with it (only 40-45 sold in the US)...