Notices
997 GT2/GT3 Forum 2005-2012
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Porsche North Houston

Thoughts on the car after my first track day

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-18-2015, 12:54 PM
  #46  
RedRSA
Rennlist Member
 
RedRSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Thanks, I will look him up. Not doubting his credentials, I just hadn't heard of him (as opposed to Brain Copanz, who I thought was generally regarded as the top Porsche gearbox expert in the country).
Old 01-18-2015, 12:56 PM
  #47  
RedRSA
Rennlist Member
 
RedRSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Terry L
Interesting. I came to Porsches from English sports cars where double clutching was de rigueur. My first Porsche DE instructor told me (14 years ago!) that it was unnecessary and a waste of time and haven 't since, except when I began to have shifting problems. Do you think that we ought to go back to trying to teach double clutching to DE students?
Hope not! For one, I would have to learn and perfect it first! Have never double clutched...
Old 01-18-2015, 02:34 PM
  #48  
996FLT6
Rennlist Member
 
996FLT6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: san francisco
Posts: 14,368
Received 247 Likes on 203 Posts
Default

What's easier to master or both the same? Seems like double clutching is just shifting one more gear. U still blip when double clutching? Mike
Old 01-18-2015, 02:48 PM
  #49  
993GT
Rennlist Member
 
993GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,787
Received 559 Likes on 344 Posts
Default

double declutching(a rev-match, in neutral) is good for every gearbox
Old 01-18-2015, 03:33 PM
  #50  
Terry L
Rennlist Member
 
Terry L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Double clutching has one extra step. Go to neutral, release clutch, rev, clutch, go to new gear. So a little slower than just rev match and slot it in. The difference is that the gearbox internals are now also closer matched to the new wheel speed.
Old 01-18-2015, 03:35 PM
  #51  
996FLT6
Rennlist Member
 
996FLT6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: san francisco
Posts: 14,368
Received 247 Likes on 203 Posts
Default

So no blip with double clutching? Mike
Old 01-18-2015, 03:41 PM
  #52  
GTgears
Nordschleife Master
 
GTgears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 5,163
Received 119 Likes on 83 Posts
Default

Watch the master at work. When done well, the first depression of the clutch to release it out of gear is just barely enough and not all the way to the floor.

As for Bill Rader? He started with his own shop here in Colorado. Then he went and worked in house at PMNA. In 2003 he was crew chief for TRG, including their trip to LeMans. In 2007 he was crew chief on the LMP2 RS Spyder that was the Muscle Milk entry. Since then he has chiefed on and off for folks like Alex Job Racing while running his gearbox business.

He does all of TRG's (Aston Martins now), Alex Job's, Park Place's, Truspeed's, BR Racing's, Topp Racing's and Kelly Moss's gearboxes. And that's just a partial list of his clients. Brian is famous because he spent so many years as PMNA's sanctioned trackside builder and sealer for the Cup spec series. Bill hasn't been doing it as long as Brian, and is closer to my age (Brian is around 60), but Bill is every bit as experienced and respected. Bill's been at every ALMS and Grand Am/IMSA race for about the last half a dozen years. He'll be in Alex's pits again this year at Daytona.
Old 01-18-2015, 04:14 PM
  #53  
GTgears
Nordschleife Master
 
GTgears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 5,163
Received 119 Likes on 83 Posts
Default

Oh, and I almost forgot to add...blipping without double clutching does in fact reduce the wear on the clutch. Double clutching reduces wear on the clutch AND the synchros.
Old 01-18-2015, 11:19 PM
  #54  
Terry L
Rennlist Member
 
Terry L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by 996FLT6
So no blip with double clutching? Mike
Sure you must blip. I said "rev" - same diff. Needs to be healthy to be effective.
Old 01-18-2015, 11:39 PM
  #55  
997s07
Burning Brakes
 
997s07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by GTgears
Oh, and I almost forgot to add...blipping without double clutching does in fact reduce the wear on the clutch. Double clutching reduces wear on the clutch AND the synchros.
So without double clutching how what's the lifetime of our 997 beauties' synchros when blipping and downshifting?

I mean aren't the synchros designed to avoid double clutching?
Old 01-19-2015, 12:45 AM
  #56  
996FLT6
Rennlist Member
 
996FLT6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: san francisco
Posts: 14,368
Received 247 Likes on 203 Posts
Default

Matt may i ask who has mastered that? I need to talk to him/her? : ) ?. Sounds like another nice challenge. Mike
Old 01-19-2015, 12:48 AM
  #57  
993GT
Rennlist Member
 
993GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,787
Received 559 Likes on 344 Posts
Default

Old 01-19-2015, 12:22 PM
  #58  
GTgears
Nordschleife Master
 
GTgears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 5,163
Received 119 Likes on 83 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 997s07
So without double clutching how what's the lifetime of our 997 beauties' synchros when blipping and downshifting?

I mean aren't the synchros designed to avoid double clutching?
Individual results may vary. Sure, the synchros will synchronize things for you. But that wears them. And they can't do it as quickly as you can with a double clutch.

Mike, his name is Leh Keen.
Old 01-19-2015, 12:43 PM
  #59  
Spyerx
Rennlist Member
 
Spyerx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 16,625
Received 1,807 Likes on 1,102 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by GTgears
Mike, his name is Leh Keen.
Seen that video before in awe. His up/down shifts sound smoother and faster than the sequential in the 997 cups. I am NOT that coordinated!
Old 01-19-2015, 05:54 PM
  #60  
NAM VET
Pro
 
NAM VET's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Rock Hill, SC, just south of Charlotte, NC
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

My first two cars did not have synchro first gears, a '59 Anglia, and a '63 MGB. Had to learn to double clutch to drop to first if rolling. Learned to "heel and toe", actually "side of foot" in our Superformance Cobra. How you do it depends on how much room your knees have under the steering wheel, and how much room in the foot-box for your feet.

I have "double clutched" any stick car since the early '60's. When taught the heel and toe by a former Porsche LeMans driver, he told Chris and I to not try to finess the throttle when blipping on a race track, but to "just zing it." Perhaps just luck, but I have always had great wear from my transmissions and clutches over the years.

Well, except for the year I drove without use of first gear in the "B", because I did not have the $60 to get the chipped first gear replaced. Torque let me do so for thousands of miles.

All the best...



Quick Reply: Thoughts on the car after my first track day



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 12:58 AM.