Ohlins DFV suspension - Mid-Ohio
06-04-2014, 06:01 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
When racing you don't have to wait for somebody to stick their hand out the window for a "point by", before you drive around/underneath them, so I respectfully disagree, when talking about lap times and traffic at "races" or "DE's", especially PCA DE's which are prone to very wide ranges of cars and skill within a single group. Most weekends at PCA events I don't even bother turning my timer on for this very reason.
So on the basis of lap times, you can't even compare "race traffic" to "DE traffic". Sure, traffic is a problem in racing because it affects your position, but that's not what we are talking about.
I get your point though, and my fastest laps are always within tenths, but that wasn't the point of my post.
So on the basis of lap times, you can't even compare "race traffic" to "DE traffic". Sure, traffic is a problem in racing because it affects your position, but that's not what we are talking about.
I get your point though, and my fastest laps are always within tenths, but that wasn't the point of my post.
06-05-2014, 03:30 PM
#17
Race Car
Our groups here in the midwest have quit a variety of speed and are unfortunately packed full of cars.
I attended the same event and if you had a well driven and capable car it was almost impossible to get a clean lap. The advanced group had better pace than the instructor group but I could only get a single clean lap there too. As a matter of fact I've got video from 2 sessions where I didn't get a clean lap the whole time. This isn't a situation where you have to abort a passing attempt and fall back in line when racing someone for position...this is come way off of your pace for a couple of corners waiting for a point.
Sunday last session of the day after most had packed up was the only time I was able to put together 3 clean laps in a row.
Sadly, as stated before, this is pretty standard issue up here.
I attended the same event and if you had a well driven and capable car it was almost impossible to get a clean lap. The advanced group had better pace than the instructor group but I could only get a single clean lap there too. As a matter of fact I've got video from 2 sessions where I didn't get a clean lap the whole time. This isn't a situation where you have to abort a passing attempt and fall back in line when racing someone for position...this is come way off of your pace for a couple of corners waiting for a point.
Sunday last session of the day after most had packed up was the only time I was able to put together 3 clean laps in a row.
Sadly, as stated before, this is pretty standard issue up here.
06-05-2014, 04:02 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
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Sorry, you present complete laptimes as your raw data and ask us to extrapolate useful data from it. I merely said your laptime deviations are too broad to generate any meaningful data. Solo DL can show corner splits. Why don't you show us that information? If the improvement is as much as you say it is, the data will prove it out. Choose a corner that you think shows a discernible difference in both data and your seat-of-the-pants impression. Anything else is conjecture at best, traffic is no excuse, get on the track and create gaps. I lived in the Midwest for 21 years, I know the congestion.
06-05-2014, 04:54 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Take or leave the info, it's offered for free. I say this respectfully, in an effort to keep this forum drama free, and make it easier for me to scroll through these posts to get to the meaningful technical info. I completely understand traffic at a DE, and it is not uncommon to have a huge split between laps and it doesn't make much sense to insult or qualify the OP when he's trying to share info.
Mvez, when you get a sec, can you answer my question from the first page?
Thanks for the thread and the info.
Mvez, when you get a sec, can you answer my question from the first page?
Thanks for the thread and the info.
06-05-2014, 08:00 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
I was honestly torn between both as well, but in my experience, most people almost never touch compression settings once they have them set, they tend to just adjust rebound.
The Bilsteins are very nice, and comparable setup. In fact, the KW Clubsports, Bilsteins, and Ohlins are all the same type of setup. I just couldn't justify paying almost double the price for having independent compression adjustment that I'll rarely use.
The Ohlins have their DFV valve, which gives you high speed compression adjustment automatically. I also like the temperature sensitive function which controls oil flow to keep the shock working the same regardless of temp....something I could definitely feel over the stock dampers.
You can't go wrong with either, I'm just a big fan of only paying for what I'm going to use. I'll never need more than this level of adjustability and performance for what I'm doing, and the lap times prove the performance is there.
The Bilsteins are very nice, and comparable setup. In fact, the KW Clubsports, Bilsteins, and Ohlins are all the same type of setup. I just couldn't justify paying almost double the price for having independent compression adjustment that I'll rarely use.
The Ohlins have their DFV valve, which gives you high speed compression adjustment automatically. I also like the temperature sensitive function which controls oil flow to keep the shock working the same regardless of temp....something I could definitely feel over the stock dampers.
You can't go wrong with either, I'm just a big fan of only paying for what I'm going to use. I'll never need more than this level of adjustability and performance for what I'm doing, and the lap times prove the performance is there.
I have family in Sweden who swear by the Ohlins for Porsche over the more "named" P brands (maybe they're biased)
06-05-2014, 10:06 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Sorry, you present complete laptimes as your raw data and ask us to extrapolate useful data from it. I merely said your laptime deviations are too broad to generate any meaningful data. Solo DL can show corner splits. Why don't you show us that information? If the improvement is as much as you say it is, the data will prove it out. Choose a corner that you think shows a discernible difference in both data and your seat-of-the-pants impression. Anything else is conjecture at best, traffic is no excuse, get on the track and create gaps. I lived in the Midwest for 21 years, I know the congestion.
Again, you are missing the point of my post, which was to give people some initial feedback on how this setup performs, from a track I know very well from both a seat of pants and lap time perspective, as compared to my previous setups. It's not a exercise in data acquisition and analysis, nor is it some back slapping on my part about how fast I am. Nor is it some quantitative exercise in pinpointing the exact performance advantage it gives. Anybody can clearly see that, except you apparently.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a set of properly valved Ohlins SA's are going to be better than the softly sprung, .1GT3 bilsteins with their crappy valving. I drove on both them, and a re-sprung version, and while the stiffer springs helped, and I was able to get very good performance from them, I can immediately tell that they are simply no substitute for a set of properly valved, single adjustable shocks with appropriate rates for the tires used. Double adjustables, even better, triple, even betterer.......if you have the knowledge and want to take the time to adjust them. I didn't, I wanted a high performing, single adjustable setup so I can tailor it to how I like my car to be. I'm not saying this is better than bilsteins, or KW, or JRZ's, I'm saying it works really, really well for what it is, certainly better than stock, and probably is the sleeper package in this segment.
I've had countless laps at Mid-Ohio, I don't need to puke AIM data all over you or anybody else to prove what I know. People in this region know me and my car. It's consistently fast, and now it's going to be even faster, more consistently, due to this shock package. How much faster is the question.
It took me all of a few laps to feel the difference, I don't need a data-orgy to know that, and neither do people who want to hear my impressions. The fact that I set my quickest time, 18 minutes into a busy session, with hot tires, shows the potential this setup has. In fact, I commented on how more consistent the HANDLING of the car was throughout the entire session. I noticed it at Barber Motorsports park as well, in March and April.
Anybody with sufficient experience knows what this means. I should go even faster with clear track (and cooler tires), but excuse me for not gathering data to your liking. Friday we ran the club course (with my shocks not set to my liking), saturday it rained, and sunday I finally got my suspension to my liking with 2 session left to go, not to mention, I had students in my car all weekend, so not much opportunity to set flyers. I fully expect to be able to get into the 33's on the pro-course on Nittos, and last time I checked, I don't know of many (or anybody) even turning low 34's in a similarly prepared car, but that's not the point. I'm not awesome, the car is. The shocks are great. I can feel it, and my seat time and pace more than qualify me to make that determination.
What you cannot quantify is confidence, and that's exactly what this shock package does. Any other setup would do that same thing. I have confidence and more control, which lets me push harder, and ultimately go faster. It's also WAY better over bumps/curbs and quick direction changes....what used to easily upset the car, now is soaked up. Adds confidence, let's you carry more speed, go faster. You are a national level karter and racer, so you should know this. I'm just some DE hack enjoying my new single adjustable shocks. I don't have time to pour over every detail of data, or jerk off to a split that I nailed...I'm busy working and getting ready for another DE this weekend.
The fact is, too many products are way overpriced for GT3's, IMO, but only because the market bears it. So it's damn refreshing when a product gets released every once in a while that both performs very well, and doesn't break the bank compared to other "comparable" products.
That's what this post does, let's people know that there is a high quality, $3000 set of single adjustable shocks that will probably meet the needs of literally 95% of all DE rennlisters, regardless of what they actually use.
Pat yourself on the back for trolling and completely hi-jacking a thread that many DE-ers would be interested in, an affordable .1GT3 suspension solution that works. But what do you care, you've probably got TTX's on all your cars.
Last edited by Mvez; 06-05-2014 at 11:15 PM.
06-05-2014, 10:27 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'm back to running oem rake, at about 25mm.....so about 102 or 103 front, 127 or 128 rear.
Yes, they have a bumpstop, and then a thin, hard black rubber ring underneath them.
Last edited by Mvez; 06-05-2014 at 10:52 PM.
06-05-2014, 10:35 PM
#25
I didn't ask you, or anyone to extrapolate anything. Dude, you are awesome, we get it, but quit being a d-bag. Not everybody needs $10,000 Ohlins TTX shocks for DE's.
Again, you are missing the point of my post, which was to give people some initial feedback on how this setup performs, from a track I know very well from both a seat of pants and lap time perspective, as compared to my previous setups. It's not a exercise in data acquisition and analysis, nor is it some back slapping on my part about how fast I am. Nor is it some quantitative exercise in pinpointing the exact performance advantage it gives. Anybody can clearly see that, except you apparently.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a set of properly valved Ohlins SA's are going to be better than the softly sprung, .1GT3 bilsteins with their crappy valving. I drove on both them, and a re-sprung version, and while the stiffer springs helped, and I was able to get very good performance from them, I can immediately tell that they are simply no substitute for a set of properly valved, single adjustable shocks with appropriate rates for the tires used. Double adjustables, even better, triple, even betterer.......if you have the knowledge and want to take the time to adjust them. I didn't, I wanted a high performing, single adjustable setup so I can tailor it to how I like my car to be. I'm not saying this is better than bilsteins, or KW, or JRZ's, I'm saying it works really, really well for what it is, certainly better than stock, and probably is the sleeper package in this segment.
I've had countless laps at Mid-Ohio, I don't need to puke AIM data all over you or anybody else to prove what I know. People in this region know me and my car. It's consistently fast, and now it's going to be even faster, more consistently, due to this shock package. How much faster is the question.
It took me all of a few laps to feel the difference, I don't need a data-orgy to know that, and neither do people who want to hear my impressions. The fact that I set my quickest time, 18 minutes into a busy session, with hot tires, shows the potential this setup has. In fact, I commented on how more consistent the HANDLING of the car was throughout the entire session. I noticed it at Barber Motorsports park as well, in March and April.
Anybody who has any pace knows what this means. I should go even faster with clear track (and cooler tires), but excuse me for not gathering data to your liking. Friday we ran the club course (with my shocks not set to my liking), saturday it rained, and sunday I finally got my suspension to my liking with 2 session left to go, not to mention, I had students in my car all weekend, so not much opportunity to set flyers. I fully expect to be able to get into the 33's on the pro-course on Nittos, and last time I checked, I don't know of many (or anybody) even turning 34's in a similarly prepared car, but that's not the point. I'm not awesome, the car is. The shocks are great. I can feel it, and my seat time and pace more than qualify me to make that determination.
What you cannot quantify is confidence, and that's exactly what this shock package does. Any other setup would do that same thing. I have confidence and more control, which lets me push harder, and ultimately go faster. It's also WAY better over bumps/curbs and quick direction changes....what used to easily upset the car, now is soaked up. Adds confidence, let's you carry more speed, go faster. You are a national level karting and racer, so you should know this. I'm just some DE hack enjoying my new single adjustable shocks. I don't have time to pour over every detail of data, or jerk off to a split that I nailed...I'm busy working and getting ready for another DE this weekend.
The fact is, too many products are way overpriced for GT3's, IMO, but only because the market bears it. So it's damn refreshing when a product gets released every once in a while that both performs very well, and doesn't break the bank compared to other "comparable" products.
That's what this post does, let's people know that there is a high quality, $3000 set of single adjustable shocks that will probably meet the needs of literally 95% of people on this board, regardless of what they actually use.
Pat yourself on the back for trolling and completely hi-jacking a thread that many casual DE-ers would be interested in, an affordable .1GT3 suspension solution that works. But what do you care, you've probably got TTX's on all your cars.
Again, you are missing the point of my post, which was to give people some initial feedback on how this setup performs, from a track I know very well from both a seat of pants and lap time perspective, as compared to my previous setups. It's not a exercise in data acquisition and analysis, nor is it some back slapping on my part about how fast I am. Nor is it some quantitative exercise in pinpointing the exact performance advantage it gives. Anybody can clearly see that, except you apparently.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a set of properly valved Ohlins SA's are going to be better than the softly sprung, .1GT3 bilsteins with their crappy valving. I drove on both them, and a re-sprung version, and while the stiffer springs helped, and I was able to get very good performance from them, I can immediately tell that they are simply no substitute for a set of properly valved, single adjustable shocks with appropriate rates for the tires used. Double adjustables, even better, triple, even betterer.......if you have the knowledge and want to take the time to adjust them. I didn't, I wanted a high performing, single adjustable setup so I can tailor it to how I like my car to be. I'm not saying this is better than bilsteins, or KW, or JRZ's, I'm saying it works really, really well for what it is, certainly better than stock, and probably is the sleeper package in this segment.
I've had countless laps at Mid-Ohio, I don't need to puke AIM data all over you or anybody else to prove what I know. People in this region know me and my car. It's consistently fast, and now it's going to be even faster, more consistently, due to this shock package. How much faster is the question.
It took me all of a few laps to feel the difference, I don't need a data-orgy to know that, and neither do people who want to hear my impressions. The fact that I set my quickest time, 18 minutes into a busy session, with hot tires, shows the potential this setup has. In fact, I commented on how more consistent the HANDLING of the car was throughout the entire session. I noticed it at Barber Motorsports park as well, in March and April.
Anybody who has any pace knows what this means. I should go even faster with clear track (and cooler tires), but excuse me for not gathering data to your liking. Friday we ran the club course (with my shocks not set to my liking), saturday it rained, and sunday I finally got my suspension to my liking with 2 session left to go, not to mention, I had students in my car all weekend, so not much opportunity to set flyers. I fully expect to be able to get into the 33's on the pro-course on Nittos, and last time I checked, I don't know of many (or anybody) even turning 34's in a similarly prepared car, but that's not the point. I'm not awesome, the car is. The shocks are great. I can feel it, and my seat time and pace more than qualify me to make that determination.
What you cannot quantify is confidence, and that's exactly what this shock package does. Any other setup would do that same thing. I have confidence and more control, which lets me push harder, and ultimately go faster. It's also WAY better over bumps/curbs and quick direction changes....what used to easily upset the car, now is soaked up. Adds confidence, let's you carry more speed, go faster. You are a national level karting and racer, so you should know this. I'm just some DE hack enjoying my new single adjustable shocks. I don't have time to pour over every detail of data, or jerk off to a split that I nailed...I'm busy working and getting ready for another DE this weekend.
The fact is, too many products are way overpriced for GT3's, IMO, but only because the market bears it. So it's damn refreshing when a product gets released every once in a while that both performs very well, and doesn't break the bank compared to other "comparable" products.
That's what this post does, let's people know that there is a high quality, $3000 set of single adjustable shocks that will probably meet the needs of literally 95% of people on this board, regardless of what they actually use.
Pat yourself on the back for trolling and completely hi-jacking a thread that many casual DE-ers would be interested in, an affordable .1GT3 suspension solution that works. But what do you care, you've probably got TTX's on all your cars.
07-16-2014, 05:01 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thanks for the post. Very helpful. Thinking about doing the same to my .1, based on your impressions and feedback.
07-16-2014, 05:20 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Is this what you have?!
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...kit-detail.htm
515/801 are the stock spring rates that come with the kit, right?!
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...kit-detail.htm
515/801 are the stock spring rates that come with the kit, right?!
07-16-2014, 05:58 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Is this what you have?!
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...kit-detail.htm
515/801 are the stock spring rates that come with the kit, right?!
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...kit-detail.htm
515/801 are the stock spring rates that come with the kit, right?!
http://www.ohlinsusa.com/road-track-tech
