Porsche considering manual option for 991 RS
02-18-2014, 08:32 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
^^^ lol... Agreed but neither do cars going up in flames but they're going there, haha...
Seems to me that the new business model is half arsed slap together then recall, recall, recall...
Seems to me that the new business model is half arsed slap together then recall, recall, recall...
02-18-2014, 09:49 AM
#19
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^^^ and Ferrari
02-18-2014, 11:12 AM
#21
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02-18-2014, 12:11 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
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lets see about that ..if more and more people are aware about the 991 GT3 crap..
At first I was angry that Porsche didnt offer a manual anymore..now I´m thinking for 997 Gt owners the situation couldnt be better..
- no GT3 with motorsport pedigree anymore
- no manual anymore
- worldwide coverage on 991 GT3 flaws..first delays for 6 month + fire..
all in all - this is very good news for 997 GT owners..it couldnt be better. Thank you Porsche..youre just destroying the GT3 name right now..but the good news is that 991 GT3 owners will suffer from it..not 997 GT owners, therefore, I dont want a manual 991 GT3 anymore and Im sure Porsche will not build one anymore.
Long live the manual 997 GT cars..
At first I was angry that Porsche didnt offer a manual anymore..now I´m thinking for 997 Gt owners the situation couldnt be better..
- no GT3 with motorsport pedigree anymore
- no manual anymore
- worldwide coverage on 991 GT3 flaws..first delays for 6 month + fire..
all in all - this is very good news for 997 GT owners..it couldnt be better. Thank you Porsche..youre just destroying the GT3 name right now..but the good news is that 991 GT3 owners will suffer from it..not 997 GT owners, therefore, I dont want a manual 991 GT3 anymore and Im sure Porsche will not build one anymore.
Long live the manual 997 GT cars..
02-18-2014, 02:07 PM
#24
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02-18-2014, 04:24 PM
#25
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Aside from the crappy turbo engine, I have to at least hand it to BMW on the new M3/4.....it comes with a REAL twin disc manual transmission, and 18" wheels with 5 lugs.
Even if the 991 RS comes with a manual, it won't be a "real" manual, it will be the same PDK-pseudo manual they already offer. I have zero desire to own any 991 currently, regardless of what tranny they offer moving forward. The paradigm shift has already happened, and the 997 is the one to have, IMO.
Even if the 991 RS comes with a manual, it won't be a "real" manual, it will be the same PDK-pseudo manual they already offer. I have zero desire to own any 991 currently, regardless of what tranny they offer moving forward. The paradigm shift has already happened, and the 997 is the one to have, IMO.
02-18-2014, 04:36 PM
#26
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Even if the 991 RS comes with a manual, it won't be a "real" manual, it will be the same PDK-pseudo manual they already offer. I have zero desire to own any 991 currently, regardless of what tranny they offer moving forward. The paradigm shift has already happened, and the 997 is the one to have, IMO.
02-18-2014, 04:37 PM
#27
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02-18-2014, 04:51 PM
#28
GT3 player par excellence
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02-18-2014, 05:01 PM
#29
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Isn't the new 7 speed based on the same case and much of the same internals as PDK? If they can offer both options on a 911S why would it be so tough on a GT3 or GT3RS?
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-pdk-tech-dept
Rummaging through the parts bin to build several cars out of the same basic bits is nothing new and, in rare cases, can even result in cars with distinct personalities. Porsche’s Boxster, Cayman, and 911 don’t suffer from sharing a multitude of body, chassis, and powertrain components. Now Porsche’s transmission engineers have moved parts-sharing down to the micro level to reap two transaxles from one blueprint. The world’s first seven-speed manual gearbox is an offshoot of the seven-speed PDK dual-clutch automatic introduced three years ago for the 997-series 911. Both are available in the 2012 991-series 911 Carrera and Carrera S.
Porsche and ZF have been collaborating on the design and development of these transaxles—code-named the DT11 (PDK) and the MT11 (manual)—since 2003. From the start, the two companies planned on sharing the maximum number of parts and manufacturing tools. Credit ZF engineer Dr. Michael Ebenhoch with inventing the twofer shift kinematics.
Each gearbox is comprised of three aluminum castings—a front section, a rear section, and one removable cover. While those castings are different to suit each transaxle’s functional distinctions, roughly one-third of the internal parts are common [see above]. The main shaft, output shaft, differential, some of the gears, and the *synchronizer mechanisms are shared. The PDK ’box has two input shafts versus the manual transaxle’s single shaft. A drive flange added to the output shaft sends torque to the front axle in four-wheel-drive models.
While the manual transaxle is lubricated with 3.5 quarts of hypoid-gear oil, the PDK requires two types of lubricant. Gears and shafts run in 3.7 quarts of hypoid-gear oil. Another 5.7 quarts of hydraulic oil keep the PDK’s wet clutches and control circuit happy. Naturally, the PDK trans is the heavier unit. Including its lubricants and oil cooler, it weighs 256 pounds. The manual transaxle weighs 189 pounds, not counting its clutch components.
Breaking a long-standing tradition, the new 911’s top speed (ranging between 178 and 189 mph) occurs in sixth, not top, gear. The overdrive seventh-gear ratios—0.617:1 (PDK), 0.711:1 (manual)—help maximize highway mileage while minimizing driveline commotion. Third- and seventh-gear ratios are specific to each gearbox; the rest are shared between the two transaxles.
One minor hitch is the manual’s five-gate shift pattern. According to Porsche, this is a necessity. First and reverse gears had to be in close proximity for convenience, and moving first from its traditional 911 upper-left location was not an option. That leaves seventh all by its lonesome in the extra gate.
Our hats are off to Porsche for both *saving a manual and for improving the 911’s functionality by adding a seventh gear ratio.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-pdk-tech-dept
Rummaging through the parts bin to build several cars out of the same basic bits is nothing new and, in rare cases, can even result in cars with distinct personalities. Porsche’s Boxster, Cayman, and 911 don’t suffer from sharing a multitude of body, chassis, and powertrain components. Now Porsche’s transmission engineers have moved parts-sharing down to the micro level to reap two transaxles from one blueprint. The world’s first seven-speed manual gearbox is an offshoot of the seven-speed PDK dual-clutch automatic introduced three years ago for the 997-series 911. Both are available in the 2012 991-series 911 Carrera and Carrera S.
Porsche and ZF have been collaborating on the design and development of these transaxles—code-named the DT11 (PDK) and the MT11 (manual)—since 2003. From the start, the two companies planned on sharing the maximum number of parts and manufacturing tools. Credit ZF engineer Dr. Michael Ebenhoch with inventing the twofer shift kinematics.
Each gearbox is comprised of three aluminum castings—a front section, a rear section, and one removable cover. While those castings are different to suit each transaxle’s functional distinctions, roughly one-third of the internal parts are common [see above]. The main shaft, output shaft, differential, some of the gears, and the *synchronizer mechanisms are shared. The PDK ’box has two input shafts versus the manual transaxle’s single shaft. A drive flange added to the output shaft sends torque to the front axle in four-wheel-drive models.
While the manual transaxle is lubricated with 3.5 quarts of hypoid-gear oil, the PDK requires two types of lubricant. Gears and shafts run in 3.7 quarts of hypoid-gear oil. Another 5.7 quarts of hydraulic oil keep the PDK’s wet clutches and control circuit happy. Naturally, the PDK trans is the heavier unit. Including its lubricants and oil cooler, it weighs 256 pounds. The manual transaxle weighs 189 pounds, not counting its clutch components.
Breaking a long-standing tradition, the new 911’s top speed (ranging between 178 and 189 mph) occurs in sixth, not top, gear. The overdrive seventh-gear ratios—0.617:1 (PDK), 0.711:1 (manual)—help maximize highway mileage while minimizing driveline commotion. Third- and seventh-gear ratios are specific to each gearbox; the rest are shared between the two transaxles.
One minor hitch is the manual’s five-gate shift pattern. According to Porsche, this is a necessity. First and reverse gears had to be in close proximity for convenience, and moving first from its traditional 911 upper-left location was not an option. That leaves seventh all by its lonesome in the extra gate.
Our hats are off to Porsche for both *saving a manual and for improving the 911’s functionality by adding a seventh gear ratio.
02-18-2014, 05:19 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
they will get the fire stuff sorted out... its the attainable halo car in a way the 918 is not...
once they sort it out, it will whip some *** at the ring and people will be in the 991GT3 forum talking about how great the double paddle pull is the easiest clutch kick they have ever done and how RWS makes it so controllable blah blah blah
as a wise man told me -- the silicon valley guys will gobble them all up... they will finally be able to go "gtr fast" and not have to be in a Nissan.
The car has far more universal appeal to a mass market... no one under the age of 30 is complaining about PDK only or 20 inch rims or centerlocks... they are jerking off on forza to N-ring times while their options appreciate... or while their app gains traction... or whatever. Then they are getting a GT3... missing the point that the gt3 legend was created by the 996 and 997.1 and 997.2 lineage which was based on the cup blah blah blah... the next big group of buyers does not seem to really care about any of that and even if they did, what choice do they have?
when Porsche pulls the manual trans that AP said was integral to the gt3 experience... you know the manual trans is dead within Porsche.
I am glad Porsche held out as long as they did...
buy a 4.0RS
it is the 911R of 2035
once they sort it out, it will whip some *** at the ring and people will be in the 991GT3 forum talking about how great the double paddle pull is the easiest clutch kick they have ever done and how RWS makes it so controllable blah blah blah
as a wise man told me -- the silicon valley guys will gobble them all up... they will finally be able to go "gtr fast" and not have to be in a Nissan.
The car has far more universal appeal to a mass market... no one under the age of 30 is complaining about PDK only or 20 inch rims or centerlocks... they are jerking off on forza to N-ring times while their options appreciate... or while their app gains traction... or whatever. Then they are getting a GT3... missing the point that the gt3 legend was created by the 996 and 997.1 and 997.2 lineage which was based on the cup blah blah blah... the next big group of buyers does not seem to really care about any of that and even if they did, what choice do they have?
when Porsche pulls the manual trans that AP said was integral to the gt3 experience... you know the manual trans is dead within Porsche.
I am glad Porsche held out as long as they did...
buy a 4.0RS
it is the 911R of 2035