Manthey's 4.4l Mezger for GT3 announced
04-10-2014, 05:51 PM
#76
Intermediate
Kadach is not Koro. They had nothing to do with each other.
Koro appeared in the press over a very short period. The silver press car had a RS Tuning engine ;-)
Schmirler goes up to 107mm Pistons. I think 82,4 stroke will be the max, using the Autoverdi oil pump. 80,4mm is max using the GT3 4,0/R/RSR oill pump
Koro appeared in the press over a very short period. The silver press car had a RS Tuning engine ;-)
Schmirler goes up to 107mm Pistons. I think 82,4 stroke will be the max, using the Autoverdi oil pump. 80,4mm is max using the GT3 4,0/R/RSR oill pump
04-10-2014, 06:01 PM
#77
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04-11-2014, 09:06 AM
#78
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Hello Porsche Maniacs,
I‘m a German Porsche enthusiast and this is my first post on RL.
Pretty often, when high capacity long-stroke Metzger engines are discussed the German company KORO pops up. As there ia a lot of misinformation concerning them, I would like to shed a bit of light on certain things and I would like to give credit where credit is due.
I want to underline that I‘m not affiliated to KORO and Mr. Erwin Korostenski. I have no financial interests.
During his long career as an engineer - as a part of Audi‘s race eingine department and also with his own company - Mr. Korostenski has developped a lot of interesting projects, from the 5 valve DTM heads up to a complete V12 F1 engine in 1988.
Porsche has always been a secret passion and for example they prepared the engine for the Dauer 962 LM street version, which was officially trapped at 404.7 km/h at the VW test track in Ehra Lessin in November 1998 (driven by Wolgang Weigel, a former Koro employee).
Erwin Korostenski had a particular addiction for high capacity Porsche NA engines. Before focussing on the watercooled Mezger engines, they realized – as a research study for a group of young engineers – a 4.2 version of the aircooled version with completly revised internals and a very tricky valvetrain.
In 2000, they built their first (100 mm x 84 mm) 4.0 version. At the beginning of 2003, so pretty long before others, he registered a patent concerning a 105.3 mm bore water cooled Metzger engine, with a very detailed description of the liners, the cylinder-housing, etc. If you take a closer look at the technical specs and the technical drawings of patent DE10338979 A1 you very evidently notice the „similarities“ between those project and certain components that are currently on the market. Especially the steel liners with their outer fins to increase the cooling surface and heat transfer look like clones of the material that was initially produced exclusively to Koro‘s specifications by their German supplier. Let‘s call it „technology transfer“...
BTW the co-owner of the patent was a KORO engineer named Henrik Schrage, who is a Porsche employee now...
The first version of the 4.6 KORO engines - built up to 2005 - were based on that patent and had the 105.3/105.4 mm bore and 88 mm stroke configuration. Between 2006 and 2008 a 107.5 mm x 84 mm set up was used. Afterwards other bore/stroke combinations with up to 5.0+ l were tested. Even some high capacity turbo engines were built and Erwin Korostenski himself had a 4.6 996TT, which was pretty fast.
Unfortunately, relying on inapproriate partners, the quality of their distribution was light years behind their technical expertise.
I had a phone conversation with Erwin Korostenski and he told me that last year a stock of KORO material, from plain long-stroke cranks up to a complete 5.0 engine (with an outdated and abandoned configuration) „got lost“ in their facility and the police is investigating the case. Who know‘s, perhaps such a 5.0 will appear somewhere as a „new invention“. Apart from that, he said that they never had a silver press car and for sure they never passed off a Schmirler engine as their own one.
I tried to convince him to post a comment. Let‘s wait and see.
Thank you for your time.
I‘m a German Porsche enthusiast and this is my first post on RL.
Pretty often, when high capacity long-stroke Metzger engines are discussed the German company KORO pops up. As there ia a lot of misinformation concerning them, I would like to shed a bit of light on certain things and I would like to give credit where credit is due.
I want to underline that I‘m not affiliated to KORO and Mr. Erwin Korostenski. I have no financial interests.
During his long career as an engineer - as a part of Audi‘s race eingine department and also with his own company - Mr. Korostenski has developped a lot of interesting projects, from the 5 valve DTM heads up to a complete V12 F1 engine in 1988.
Porsche has always been a secret passion and for example they prepared the engine for the Dauer 962 LM street version, which was officially trapped at 404.7 km/h at the VW test track in Ehra Lessin in November 1998 (driven by Wolgang Weigel, a former Koro employee).
Erwin Korostenski had a particular addiction for high capacity Porsche NA engines. Before focussing on the watercooled Mezger engines, they realized – as a research study for a group of young engineers – a 4.2 version of the aircooled version with completly revised internals and a very tricky valvetrain.
In 2000, they built their first (100 mm x 84 mm) 4.0 version. At the beginning of 2003, so pretty long before others, he registered a patent concerning a 105.3 mm bore water cooled Metzger engine, with a very detailed description of the liners, the cylinder-housing, etc. If you take a closer look at the technical specs and the technical drawings of patent DE10338979 A1 you very evidently notice the „similarities“ between those project and certain components that are currently on the market. Especially the steel liners with their outer fins to increase the cooling surface and heat transfer look like clones of the material that was initially produced exclusively to Koro‘s specifications by their German supplier. Let‘s call it „technology transfer“...
BTW the co-owner of the patent was a KORO engineer named Henrik Schrage, who is a Porsche employee now...
The first version of the 4.6 KORO engines - built up to 2005 - were based on that patent and had the 105.3/105.4 mm bore and 88 mm stroke configuration. Between 2006 and 2008 a 107.5 mm x 84 mm set up was used. Afterwards other bore/stroke combinations with up to 5.0+ l were tested. Even some high capacity turbo engines were built and Erwin Korostenski himself had a 4.6 996TT, which was pretty fast.
Unfortunately, relying on inapproriate partners, the quality of their distribution was light years behind their technical expertise.
I had a phone conversation with Erwin Korostenski and he told me that last year a stock of KORO material, from plain long-stroke cranks up to a complete 5.0 engine (with an outdated and abandoned configuration) „got lost“ in their facility and the police is investigating the case. Who know‘s, perhaps such a 5.0 will appear somewhere as a „new invention“. Apart from that, he said that they never had a silver press car and for sure they never passed off a Schmirler engine as their own one.
I tried to convince him to post a comment. Let‘s wait and see.
Thank you for your time.
04-11-2014, 10:27 AM
#79
The Rebel
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The real balancing act is drivability and reliability. Anyone can make these engines bigger to produce more horsepower, but can you do it while maintaining the wonderful characteristics of Porsche's fantastic engine along with equal-to-OEM reliability?
Porsche has had their own issues with this equation and arguably they've invested more time and money than anyone else in this endeavor. Time and money doesn't mean that they got it spot on either. The Porsche 4.0 was tested, not for months but years prior to them releasing it on the motoring public and still there's room for improvement.
The point is; this (increasing power while maintaining it's drivability and reliability) isn't as easy as some think. Don't try this at home boys and girls, leave it up to the professionals. Experience and track record means a ton regarding this subject. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Hey sharky if we're talking penalty kicks, I've my money on Drogba or Radamel Falcao!
Porsche has had their own issues with this equation and arguably they've invested more time and money than anyone else in this endeavor. Time and money doesn't mean that they got it spot on either. The Porsche 4.0 was tested, not for months but years prior to them releasing it on the motoring public and still there's room for improvement.
The point is; this (increasing power while maintaining it's drivability and reliability) isn't as easy as some think. Don't try this at home boys and girls, leave it up to the professionals. Experience and track record means a ton regarding this subject. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Hey sharky if we're talking penalty kicks, I've my money on Drogba or Radamel Falcao!
04-12-2014, 11:38 AM
#81
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... ONLY 530 BHP?
I would save the money and go with Sharky 3.9! With the Manthey you're spending how much more for 30bhp? Especially for that extra money you have to spend, that and the conversion of the dollar to the euro don't help.
And it is probably true that Porsche tested a 4.0L version of the engine for years, but they won't release something onto the public, racing, or otherwise until it meets their high quality of assurance and reliability.
I dunno, i just see that bottom line on the cost as some punchline to some joke. You go racing with bits and bobs, you drive them on the street.
I would save the money and go with Sharky 3.9! With the Manthey you're spending how much more for 30bhp? Especially for that extra money you have to spend, that and the conversion of the dollar to the euro don't help.
And it is probably true that Porsche tested a 4.0L version of the engine for years, but they won't release something onto the public, racing, or otherwise until it meets their high quality of assurance and reliability.
I dunno, i just see that bottom line on the cost as some punchline to some joke. You go racing with bits and bobs, you drive them on the street.
Last edited by Tacet-Conundrum; 04-12-2014 at 12:18 PM.
04-12-2014, 01:08 PM
#82
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There's always hp and hp.
Sometimes smaller amount is IRL faster than the bigger one. Race proven is another issue. Somehow in Porsche's engines it's THE issue. Coming to tuning world not anymore... Funny, isn't it? Then there's also question about liability and approval for use on public roads. It's not cheap.
Sometimes smaller amount is IRL faster than the bigger one. Race proven is another issue. Somehow in Porsche's engines it's THE issue. Coming to tuning world not anymore... Funny, isn't it? Then there's also question about liability and approval for use on public roads. It's not cheap.
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Power. Lots is good, more is better, too much is just right...
'87 951, RIP
'00 996 C2 L92U AQ / IXAA IXRB IX54 M96/7.xx G96/7.88 M030 M375 M376 M436 M476 M601 M983 ... + 991 GT3 brakes, 997 GT3 sway bars, fully monoball'd suspension, Bilstein Cup Car coilovers, do88 Big Pack ICs. 10 & 12 x 19" BBS CH-R wheels with 265/30 & 325 /30 -19 MPSC2s.
Pete
Power. Lots is good, more is better, too much is just right...
'87 951, RIP
'00 996 C2 L92U AQ / IXAA IXRB IX54 M96/7.xx G96/7.88 M030 M375 M376 M436 M476 M601 M983 ... + 991 GT3 brakes, 997 GT3 sway bars, fully monoball'd suspension, Bilstein Cup Car coilovers, do88 Big Pack ICs. 10 & 12 x 19" BBS CH-R wheels with 265/30 & 325 /30 -19 MPSC2s.
04-12-2014, 02:22 PM
#83
The Rebel
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Like I said, money and experience doesn't mean they got it right either.
10-03-2022, 10:29 AM
#85
never knew these existed
WOW
WOW
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madmurdock (10-06-2022)
10-04-2022, 08:32 AM
#86
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like t he duct tape .4 correction !
seats still say 3.8 lol
seats still say 3.8 lol
