Please please enlighten me!!! Why are the 2 RS prices at almost 200K?!
12-29-2013, 09:02 AM
#62
I have a colleague that bought a 4.0 at the same time i bought my RS. I didn't know it then but when i saw it I let it slip that I had seen it on track the week before he bought it. The previous owner was properly "warming" it up for the new owner. My colleague has never driven his 4.0, he has been dry storing it from day 1.
There you go. Virgins. how do you tell? they don't bleed and everything worn can be changed out. and paint re-touched/ plastic wrapped.
12-29-2013, 10:12 AM
#65
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On one hand I don't mind speculators driving up the values of these cars (even the 3.8 RS) but that is only because I have mine. I used to own Toyota Supras in the late 1990s to mid 2000s and it was crazy how much demand there were for rare models of that car. I used to buy cars from long distance, drive them for a year, and sell them for considerably more in my local market. When I bought my RS in late spring 2013 I thought to myself that it was going to be a safe place to put my money for the long haul (last Mezger, last MT, RS model), but it's pretty crazy what has been going on. I like to see enthusiasts actually get their hands on these cars, not just collectors and people looking to flip for a profit. I guess it's a blessing and a curse in that way.
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12-29-2013, 10:55 AM
#66
There does seem to be a boom in the prices of old porsches. 964s, 993, 997RS and so on. It doesn't quite make sense to me and yes there are well-heeled enthusiasts buying up cars by the half dozen and then asking 1.5x - 4x the price (depending on the car). I wouldn't have paid $50K for a 993Turbo 3 years ago, why would I pay $130K now?
9973.8RS is a beautiful, amazing car. I would buy one for $110K. But I won't find one. Because typically people who "speculate" on these cars never actually NEED to sell. So they price it wherever and just wait (and wait, and wait) and eventually fiction becomes fact. m5trol explained it perfectly. it is a pity in a way. but ups and downs in every market...
9973.8RS is a beautiful, amazing car. I would buy one for $110K. But I won't find one. Because typically people who "speculate" on these cars never actually NEED to sell. So they price it wherever and just wait (and wait, and wait) and eventually fiction becomes fact. m5trol explained it perfectly. it is a pity in a way. but ups and downs in every market...
12-29-2013, 11:33 AM
#67
Race Director
Speculators can't just decide to raise prices at whim. There must be an underlying supply/demand imbalance in the market on which they are betting. Plus, markets are forward looking. I believe there are two main reasons for the price rise of raw, mechanical, analogue Porsches:
1. The GTS-ification of the 991 GT3. There already are dozens of Porsche models that are good for daily driving, weekend drives and occasional track day. GT3's (and RS's) have typically been the rawest of them all -- probably not the best for driving them daily or for hours on the highway but always having that mechanical rawness and tactile attributes that makes you look forward to firing them up on a weekend morning for that 1hr country road jaunt or a day at the track to get your dose of visual, aural, and tactile excitement which may be a bit much if taken every day. Now that the 991 GT3 is being praised for its "versatility" and "compliance" many previous GT3/RS owners are fearing that the GT3 concept (as described above) may be getting diluted beyond a point they are willing to cross.
2. There is some Euro 6 "green" regulation looming in Europe starting around Sep 1, 2014. There are articles and projections that this may mark the end of the NA high performance engines and force performance car manufacturers into smaller turbo and hybrid engines. If true, this would make the GT3/RS and older Porsche models even more desirable for the people who appreciate what mechanical and analog rawness does to their senses. I believe Singer's appearance, success, and price levels it commands are further manifestations of this trend.
In light of the above, it is perfectly reasonable that forward looking enthusiasts and speculators would enter the market and position themselves for the possible increase in the supply/demand imbalance going forward. That's how markets work.
1. The GTS-ification of the 991 GT3. There already are dozens of Porsche models that are good for daily driving, weekend drives and occasional track day. GT3's (and RS's) have typically been the rawest of them all -- probably not the best for driving them daily or for hours on the highway but always having that mechanical rawness and tactile attributes that makes you look forward to firing them up on a weekend morning for that 1hr country road jaunt or a day at the track to get your dose of visual, aural, and tactile excitement which may be a bit much if taken every day. Now that the 991 GT3 is being praised for its "versatility" and "compliance" many previous GT3/RS owners are fearing that the GT3 concept (as described above) may be getting diluted beyond a point they are willing to cross.
2. There is some Euro 6 "green" regulation looming in Europe starting around Sep 1, 2014. There are articles and projections that this may mark the end of the NA high performance engines and force performance car manufacturers into smaller turbo and hybrid engines. If true, this would make the GT3/RS and older Porsche models even more desirable for the people who appreciate what mechanical and analog rawness does to their senses. I believe Singer's appearance, success, and price levels it commands are further manifestations of this trend.
In light of the above, it is perfectly reasonable that forward looking enthusiasts and speculators would enter the market and position themselves for the possible increase in the supply/demand imbalance going forward. That's how markets work.
Last edited by hf1; 12-29-2013 at 11:59 AM.
12-29-2013, 03:21 PM
#68
GT3 player par excellence
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u are all missing the point
I some times run a equity fund, so timing the mkt is kind of my job.but non of the big fund managers time the mkt. those who think they timed it right are the ones who got it wrong. there are no fund in hosting that made it big by timing.
that said, one can wait for rs to drop, but some ppl want to drove it now and be done with it. then decode to buy another indenticsl model same color same everything and do it again. the enjoyment and driving during that time should be "calculated" while others are waiting for price drop. if u saved 50,000 on the target but I put 10000 ℗ miles on the car while u waited, was it more " value" saved? the calculation based on purchase price is false economy. what if u die while waiting?
soneone said I can buy cheap due to connection. well I lose a lot of money on each car I sell and buy. in fact, if u calculated the total cost of my 4.0 hahaha, those who paid 400 got a bargain. I time mkt well, always buy high sell low
so when I post for sale ad, pls wore money roght away. I don't allow PPI on my cars, but ask Randy, pjs and other they love what they bought.
just find waht u want
buy it
smile
drive the **** out of it
the move on
I some times run a equity fund, so timing the mkt is kind of my job.but non of the big fund managers time the mkt. those who think they timed it right are the ones who got it wrong. there are no fund in hosting that made it big by timing.
that said, one can wait for rs to drop, but some ppl want to drove it now and be done with it. then decode to buy another indenticsl model same color same everything and do it again. the enjoyment and driving during that time should be "calculated" while others are waiting for price drop. if u saved 50,000 on the target but I put 10000 ℗ miles on the car while u waited, was it more " value" saved? the calculation based on purchase price is false economy. what if u die while waiting?
soneone said I can buy cheap due to connection. well I lose a lot of money on each car I sell and buy. in fact, if u calculated the total cost of my 4.0 hahaha, those who paid 400 got a bargain. I time mkt well, always buy high sell low
so when I post for sale ad, pls wore money roght away. I don't allow PPI on my cars, but ask Randy, pjs and other they love what they bought.
just find waht u want
buy it
smile
drive the **** out of it
the move on
12-29-2013, 03:47 PM
#69
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I don't care what I paid for my .2RS in September nor do I care about its resale value years later. I will drive the **** out of it on and off the track. Have fun, gentlemen!
12-29-2013, 04:05 PM
#70
Nordschleife Master
u are all missing the point
I some times run a equity fund, so timing the mkt is kind of my job.but non of the big fund managers time the mkt. those who think they timed it right are the ones who got it wrong. there are no fund in hosting that made it big by timing.
that said, one can wait for rs to drop, but some ppl want to drove it now and be done with it. then decode to buy another indenticsl model same color same everything and do it again. the enjoyment and driving during that time should be "calculated" while others are waiting for price drop. if u saved 50,000 on the target but I put 10000 ℗ miles on the car while u waited, was it more " value" saved? the calculation based on purchase price is false economy. what if u die while waiting?
soneone said I can buy cheap due to connection. well I lose a lot of money on each car I sell and buy. in fact, if u calculated the total cost of my 4.0 hahaha, those who paid 400 got a bargain. I time mkt well, always buy high sell low
so when I post for sale ad, pls wore money roght away. I don't allow PPI on my cars, but ask Randy, pjs and other they love what they bought.
just find waht u want
buy it
smile
drive the **** out of it
the move on
I some times run a equity fund, so timing the mkt is kind of my job.but non of the big fund managers time the mkt. those who think they timed it right are the ones who got it wrong. there are no fund in hosting that made it big by timing.
that said, one can wait for rs to drop, but some ppl want to drove it now and be done with it. then decode to buy another indenticsl model same color same everything and do it again. the enjoyment and driving during that time should be "calculated" while others are waiting for price drop. if u saved 50,000 on the target but I put 10000 ℗ miles on the car while u waited, was it more " value" saved? the calculation based on purchase price is false economy. what if u die while waiting?
soneone said I can buy cheap due to connection. well I lose a lot of money on each car I sell and buy. in fact, if u calculated the total cost of my 4.0 hahaha, those who paid 400 got a bargain. I time mkt well, always buy high sell low
so when I post for sale ad, pls wore money roght away. I don't allow PPI on my cars, but ask Randy, pjs and other they love what they bought.
just find waht u want
buy it
smile
drive the **** out of it
the move on
I did make a mistake and not buy ur 4.0
And ur old cup is fun too...
12-29-2013, 04:10 PM
#71
12-29-2013, 04:17 PM
#72
Nordschleife Master
the good old days...when Mooty was hording cars to inflate the market
I just wired the money sight unseen, no ppi
That was the last time Giesha had a coat of wax
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=66440
I just wired the money sight unseen, no ppi
That was the last time Giesha had a coat of wax
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=66440
12-29-2013, 04:54 PM
#73
Moot's thoughts, my experience:
"just find waht u want
buy it
smile
drive the **** out of it
the move on"
Bought my RS Oct 2012 from Byers. Thirty minute phone conversation and had the car shipped. Previous attempt failed at another dealership when I waited overnight to ponder the purchase. Have not looked back. Car was a virgin with 4,000 miles; now has 18,000 and many mods and 25 track days. At my age (64) I am certainly not saving the car for the next buyer. I drive every chance I get which includes to work. Whatever amount the car has depreciated due to mileage has been more than doubled in the joy I have experienced.
__________________
"just find waht u want
buy it
smile
drive the **** out of it
the move on"
Bought my RS Oct 2012 from Byers. Thirty minute phone conversation and had the car shipped. Previous attempt failed at another dealership when I waited overnight to ponder the purchase. Have not looked back. Car was a virgin with 4,000 miles; now has 18,000 and many mods and 25 track days. At my age (64) I am certainly not saving the car for the next buyer. I drive every chance I get which includes to work. Whatever amount the car has depreciated due to mileage has been more than doubled in the joy I have experienced.
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12-29-2013, 05:49 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
^this +1!
Bought my NB back in July of '11 with 2K miles on her. 19K now. For the first 6 months, I worried about the miles and depreciation. Then I just said f' it and drive whenever I want. Much happier for having done it. A friend was just diagnosed with stage 3,4 lymphoma. Not sure how much time she has. Any of our tickets' could get punched tomorrow. I don't want to die not having really lived while worrying over $15K in potential depreciation.
Bought my NB back in July of '11 with 2K miles on her. 19K now. For the first 6 months, I worried about the miles and depreciation. Then I just said f' it and drive whenever I want. Much happier for having done it. A friend was just diagnosed with stage 3,4 lymphoma. Not sure how much time she has. Any of our tickets' could get punched tomorrow. I don't want to die not having really lived while worrying over $15K in potential depreciation.
