911rox

The correct answer!!...

brake dust

Not an investment - but the GT3 will not depreciate nearly as quickly as the other 911 variants. Will be interesting to see how the 991 GT3 values hold up. I still think Porsche will produce a higher number than was produced for the 996 / 997 series because of the engine.

Nizer

The Fed, the IRS, and the whims of the general public will determine what is and isn't a good investment 10 years from now. That said, +CF is almost never a bad thing.

OroborusGT3

With the introduction of the PDK demand will pick up caused by those that never intended to buy a stick shift Porsche or such a car. This could turn the GT3 into what has happened with Ferrari and Lamborghin, a poseurs delight! Not all owners of course, but I can see the constipation looking face from the true hardcore owners staring at the Starbucks crowd.

perfectlap

What % of GT3 or Porsches in general ever see an Autocross/DE?
Or at least how many are consistently driven over 4K RPM instead of sitting at
0.0 RPMs as a showpiece in the garage?
Porsche as a brand has been a poseur's delight for a l ong time now.
But I get your meaning, it will be more obvious with an automatic GT3.

GT3DE

Do you think anyone at Monterey got rich buying collector cars? Of course not. They got rich investing in profitable business and real estate and then used the profits to buy the cars. Not one of those guys is buying those cars as an investment. They are buying for pure enjoyment of ownership.

As to currency taking a dump - you are correct. Since Nixon took us off the gold standard in 1971 the US$ has lost more than 90% of its value. With the Federal Reserve printing this fiat money, money is no longer money. It is worth less and less every day.

But a car is not a hard asset. Gold and silver are hard assets. Rented out real estate is a hard asset. Oil wells are hard assets. Hard assets make money or hedge against inflation without costing you money to own them. Most hard assets PAY you to own them.

I will say this over and over and over and over and over and over again - your house is not an asset. Your house is a liability. Your house costs you money. Your house does not pay you money.

Same with cars.

You have no control whatsoever on the future price of your car or house. That is NOT investing, that is gambling.

mooty

to some extent, i am exaggerating.
however RE is still a safe investment. 07 bust was due to leverage, not purely RE issue. if you were in RE in 07-09 with zero levereage, you be doing must fine. NPV or IRR depednign on which school of thoughts you are on will certainly b lower vs. levered, but you are buying risk vs. safety.

the "potential" of appreciation is higher than that of car.

certainly, the uber rare cars (the are really objects that look like cars, ppl do not drive duesenberg (sp), suiza, talbot etc to car and coffee really, i dont care how much money such individual has, you just dont drive these things) will appreciate, but when once has the $ to play in this realm, there are trophy RE that they can invest in which will appreciate faster.

i am discounting the pleasure of driving the car of course. now if you want to convert that enjoyment into monetary term, then perhaps, car can be an valid investment. but GT3DE's argument was purely based on "investment" as in CF or capital appreciation.

hard asset is more useful than paper money has validity, as money is loosely (today) based on hard asset (usually gold). while a car is hard, it's not hard asset in my books. gold bar is though... but it's not too useful as a tender. if i should up with 1 metric ton of gold at monterey auction, i prolly wont be able to buy much but certainly freak out a lot of ppl.

bottom line is that buy the car, have some fun and call it a day.

mooty

fauk...
i posted right after GT3DE, not sure if seeing things his way is all that good LOL!
cheers clarke.

ah, here is disagreement:

rental prop is hard asset by clarke's std as it generates CF, provide you have enough equity to go +CF
house (your primary residence) is not hard asset it doesn't generate CF per se. but in CA, the capital appreciation (barring the recent debacle) makes it hard asset as the ultimate CF in disposition will recapture, all cap ex, tax, maintenance and such. but that's crazy CA where 1200 sf dog house with 7000sf lot just sold for $3MM not far from silicon valley. what i meant by dog house, is that it will be torn down before the escrow even closes.

perfectlap

^Speaks the truth. A house is also a pawn piece in a very sophisticated monetary scheme that Wall Street and Treasury have been running since the securitzation of mortages became a self-perpetuating interest of both parties. Unsophisticated home buyers are caught in the middle of one cyclical bubble to bust cycle which sees their net worth evaporate overnight when lend-to-securitize mortgage alchemy goes south.
The sad thing is that many middle income households plow nearly half of their of their income into their mortgage payments which allows them to put away this much for retirement: $0. They're retiring on a prayer and expensive property tax bills await. Although they are also largely to blame because the majority never consult with a financial planner to see what % of the bank approved loan they should actually be spending. This blows up house prices to the point that even now after an epic housing debacle home prices are still on the high side of the Case Shiller. And the ones who do plan responsibly go out into the market only to find out that their budget leaves them with few options, so they lever themselves to the hilt to get square footage that isn't anywhere near luxury. A market that relies heavily on borrowed money is a destructive one.

interesting article on going broke with high income
http://business.financialpost.com/20...ich-and-broke/

mooty

u lost me, MBS (securitization) may contribute to the structure of mortgages, but it should not affect the outcome of housing price directly.

Targa Tim

How come this thread turns into real estates discussion??

The house that I am living in is definitely my biggest asset. If I sell it now, I will make 3 times of what I have put in 13 years ago, and I don't need to pay tax on what I earn. With this money, I can rent a place to live for a very long time.

Back to cars. They never are investments to me, they are my toys. If they depreciate less than expected, then I am happy. If they depreciate too much, then I am happy too, as I can tell my wife that there is no point selling them.

TRAKCAR

He barks once I buy, twice I sell. He's right as often as the rest of us.
I did OK on the GT3's, than he barked twice.

perfectlap

So how long have you been in the hedge fund business?

Nizer

+1 Wait until interest rates normalize and/or the gov decides it doesn't want to be in the mortgage business anymore....

GT3DE

Mortgage lending practices have EVERYTHING to do with home prices - DIRECTLY!!!

Your house is not the asset for the bank. Banks don't want houses. You are the asset for the bank. You pay the bank.

The monetary system is one of actively seeking inflation (vs deflation). Freddie and Fannie were created to put Americans in debt.

Printing fiat money causes inflation. Inflation is the silent tax. Your savings are worth less and less every day.

When you borrow (mortgage) to buy a house you are following the path set out for you to be a good tax paying employee and do what you are told - a good socialist worker.

Why do you think there is no financial education in our school systems? They teach nothing about money. Even MBA programs are just education for WORKERS of a corporation - not education about how to start or run a company - just how to work at a company.