What should I be looking at or focusing on for my McLaren MP4-12C
08-16-2013, 02:24 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
I am intrigued by McLaren - and await a track car option sub $150k.
-B
08-16-2013, 04:23 PM
#62
I agree with this point, and have an additional comment. I have been pondering a move to Ferrari's (575M as DD, and 430 Scud as track car) and find that only a select group of Ferrari dealers (Washington DC & Atlanta come to mind) are knowledgable about the cars for track use. I think this is b/c only a handful of dealers actually support customers that race in the Ferrari Challenge series...
-B
-B
Greg A
08-17-2013, 11:09 AM
#63
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Somewhat germane to this thread - Montoya interviewed by Autoweek...
AW: We'll be driving the new 911 Turbo soon, that's another car that's going to be insanely fast.
JPM: I hate the Porsches.
AW: What? You hate Porsches?
JPM: They drive like $#!^!
I know a lot of people that love Porsches and I always break their heart (laughs). I'll tell you something, honestly, the only Porsche I like is the Cayenne.
AW: Come on.
JPM: I'm being honest (laughs). Actually you know what didn't drive that badly was the GT3, the RS. I had one of those for like two months.
AW: What don't you like about them?
JPM: They drive like $#!^ with the engine back there. You turn, it doesn't turn. You get on the gas, the front bounces and, oh my God.
...
JPM: Nothing drives like a Ferrari but if you want pure horsepower, you know, you want your *** to get tight when you get on the gas? You want to drive a ZR1!
I mean, the first time I drove a ZR1, I went, #$%&!
AW: And it's not just fast, it's frightening …
JPM: Exactly! I've been to the [GM Milford Road Course proving ground]—that [track] in the ZR1 with [stability control and traction control turned off], holy #$*!. You know when you go over that hump at the back [of the track]? 140 mph over the hump, you spin the tires down it. You're wide-open through there! On a car like the ZR1, you turn off the electronics, you better know what you're doing! Because now you're gonna end up against the light pole somewhere (laughs)
...
AW: The horsepower of these modern cars is definitely impressive, though. But again, even for a professional race-car driver, honestly, what do you do on the street with 500, 600 horsepower?
JPM: I was a big fan of Ferraris so I had a 355, then the 360 coupe, 360 Spider, 430 Spider. But by the time we got to the 430 I said, there's two things that are gonna happen with this: Either I'm gonna kill myself or I'm gonna end up in jail.
I put 200 miles on it and I said you know what, to enjoy it -- for me, if you're not pushing the car, if you have a Ferrari and you go through a ramp exit, that thing, you better be drifting! And when you do that in a Ferrari, you aren't doing 80, you're doing 130 mph. And at 130 mph if something goes wrong … yeah.
Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...#ixzz2cEetLsWS
Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on Twitter | AutoweekUSA on Facebook
AW: We'll be driving the new 911 Turbo soon, that's another car that's going to be insanely fast.
JPM: I hate the Porsches.
AW: What? You hate Porsches?
JPM: They drive like $#!^!
I know a lot of people that love Porsches and I always break their heart (laughs). I'll tell you something, honestly, the only Porsche I like is the Cayenne.
AW: Come on.
JPM: I'm being honest (laughs). Actually you know what didn't drive that badly was the GT3, the RS. I had one of those for like two months.
AW: What don't you like about them?
JPM: They drive like $#!^ with the engine back there. You turn, it doesn't turn. You get on the gas, the front bounces and, oh my God.
...
JPM: Nothing drives like a Ferrari but if you want pure horsepower, you know, you want your *** to get tight when you get on the gas? You want to drive a ZR1!
I mean, the first time I drove a ZR1, I went, #$%&!
AW: And it's not just fast, it's frightening …
JPM: Exactly! I've been to the [GM Milford Road Course proving ground]—that [track] in the ZR1 with [stability control and traction control turned off], holy #$*!. You know when you go over that hump at the back [of the track]? 140 mph over the hump, you spin the tires down it. You're wide-open through there! On a car like the ZR1, you turn off the electronics, you better know what you're doing! Because now you're gonna end up against the light pole somewhere (laughs)
...
AW: The horsepower of these modern cars is definitely impressive, though. But again, even for a professional race-car driver, honestly, what do you do on the street with 500, 600 horsepower?
JPM: I was a big fan of Ferraris so I had a 355, then the 360 coupe, 360 Spider, 430 Spider. But by the time we got to the 430 I said, there's two things that are gonna happen with this: Either I'm gonna kill myself or I'm gonna end up in jail.
I put 200 miles on it and I said you know what, to enjoy it -- for me, if you're not pushing the car, if you have a Ferrari and you go through a ramp exit, that thing, you better be drifting! And when you do that in a Ferrari, you aren't doing 80, you're doing 130 mph. And at 130 mph if something goes wrong … yeah.
Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...#ixzz2cEetLsWS
Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on Twitter | AutoweekUSA on Facebook
08-17-2013, 12:41 PM
#66
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Montoya just like to have the engine where he wants it.
Wonder.if.he would have the same thoughts in a Cayman.
Some folks just cant get use to the car with the motor behind the rear transaxle.
Wonder.if.he would have the same thoughts in a Cayman.
Some folks just cant get use to the car with the motor behind the rear transaxle.
08-19-2013, 08:59 PM
#68
I think Montoya just summarized my frustration with the McLaren (the inability to drift it) and the issue with all these supercars: You have to go so fast to find the edge of the envelope. Which easily leads to jail or a much worse outcome. (Time for a lightweight old-skool 911 with skinny tyres).
On another note, I drove a Carrera GT this weekend for the first time. Wow!!
It's certainly a proper (analog) sports car.
Despite all the reports to the contrary, the tranny was easier and smoother to drive than expected. The engine and very lightweight fly wheel are just instantly responsive and hugely entertaining. Eager to thrust is an understatement.
We drag raced the two cars up a long shallow hill. The 12C was clearly faster (presumably due to the extra torque from the forced induction), but it was a fairly close match.
I loved the weight balance of the CGT and how easy it is to rotate (slide) and correct. My major gripe was the lively suspension. The springs rates/rebound behaviour of the suspension reminded me of my overly sprung Cup car. I'm sure it works really well under high loads on glassy smooth circuits, but for a spirited mountain drive, I found it rather hairy. It did made it quite exciting; I had more hairs standing on end and whiter knuckles than anything I've driven in anger lately. As a result the CGT couldn't keep pace with the 12C as it was too much of a handful in the twisties with the bumps and lumps. But it reminded me of how far multi-mode magnetorheological dampers have taken us, and their ability to fix the compromise conundrum by offering multiple solutions. I drive most M.R. suspension systems in soft mode on the street (even at speed) because they are usually too bumpy to benefit from the 'track' mode. Has anyone tried softer springs on the CGT? Comments?
Overall, the CGT despite being a decade old is clearly as good and as powerful as any modern super car, just more interactive. It's a manly car made for people who've learned the art of driving (not just stamping on the pedal). Plus you can turn TC off with a simple button press; no button contortion or secret handshakes required!
On another note, I drove a Carrera GT this weekend for the first time. Wow!!
It's certainly a proper (analog) sports car.
Despite all the reports to the contrary, the tranny was easier and smoother to drive than expected. The engine and very lightweight fly wheel are just instantly responsive and hugely entertaining. Eager to thrust is an understatement.
We drag raced the two cars up a long shallow hill. The 12C was clearly faster (presumably due to the extra torque from the forced induction), but it was a fairly close match.
I loved the weight balance of the CGT and how easy it is to rotate (slide) and correct. My major gripe was the lively suspension. The springs rates/rebound behaviour of the suspension reminded me of my overly sprung Cup car. I'm sure it works really well under high loads on glassy smooth circuits, but for a spirited mountain drive, I found it rather hairy. It did made it quite exciting; I had more hairs standing on end and whiter knuckles than anything I've driven in anger lately. As a result the CGT couldn't keep pace with the 12C as it was too much of a handful in the twisties with the bumps and lumps. But it reminded me of how far multi-mode magnetorheological dampers have taken us, and their ability to fix the compromise conundrum by offering multiple solutions. I drive most M.R. suspension systems in soft mode on the street (even at speed) because they are usually too bumpy to benefit from the 'track' mode. Has anyone tried softer springs on the CGT? Comments?
Overall, the CGT despite being a decade old is clearly as good and as powerful as any modern super car, just more interactive. It's a manly car made for people who've learned the art of driving (not just stamping on the pedal). Plus you can turn TC off with a simple button press; no button contortion or secret handshakes required!
08-19-2013, 11:02 PM
#69
I think Montoya just summarized my frustration with the McLaren (the inability to drift it) and the issue with all these supercars: You have to go so fast to find the edge of the envelope. Which easily leads to jail or a much worse outcome. (Time for a lightweight old-skool 911 with skinny tyres).
On another note, I drove a Carrera GT this weekend for the first time. Wow!!
It's certainly a proper (analog) sports car.
Despite all the reports to the contrary, the tranny was easier and smoother to drive than expected. The engine and very lightweight fly wheel are just instantly responsive and hugely entertaining. Eager to thrust is an understatement.
We drag raced the two cars up a long shallow hill. The 12C was clearly faster (presumably due to the extra torque from the forced induction), but it was a fairly close match.
I loved the weight balance of the CGT and how easy it is to rotate (slide) and correct. My major gripe was the lively suspension. The springs rates/rebound behaviour of the suspension reminded me of my overly sprung Cup car. I'm sure it works really well under high loads on glassy smooth circuits, but for a spirited mountain drive, I found it rather hairy. It did made it quite exciting; I had more hairs standing on end and whiter knuckles than anything I've driven in anger lately. As a result the CGT couldn't keep pace with the 12C as it was too much of a handful in the twisties with the bumps and lumps. But it reminded me of how far multi-mode magnetorheological dampers have taken us, and their ability to fix the compromise conundrum by offering multiple solutions. I drive most M.R. suspension systems in soft mode on the street (even at speed) because they are usually too bumpy to benefit from the 'track' mode. Has anyone tried softer springs on the CGT? Comments?
Overall, the CGT despite being a decade old is clearly as good and as powerful as any modern super car, just more interactive. It's a manly car made for people who've learned the art of driving (not just stamping on the pedal). Plus you can turn TC off with a simple button press; no button contortion or secret handshakes required!
On another note, I drove a Carrera GT this weekend for the first time. Wow!!
It's certainly a proper (analog) sports car.
Despite all the reports to the contrary, the tranny was easier and smoother to drive than expected. The engine and very lightweight fly wheel are just instantly responsive and hugely entertaining. Eager to thrust is an understatement.
We drag raced the two cars up a long shallow hill. The 12C was clearly faster (presumably due to the extra torque from the forced induction), but it was a fairly close match.
I loved the weight balance of the CGT and how easy it is to rotate (slide) and correct. My major gripe was the lively suspension. The springs rates/rebound behaviour of the suspension reminded me of my overly sprung Cup car. I'm sure it works really well under high loads on glassy smooth circuits, but for a spirited mountain drive, I found it rather hairy. It did made it quite exciting; I had more hairs standing on end and whiter knuckles than anything I've driven in anger lately. As a result the CGT couldn't keep pace with the 12C as it was too much of a handful in the twisties with the bumps and lumps. But it reminded me of how far multi-mode magnetorheological dampers have taken us, and their ability to fix the compromise conundrum by offering multiple solutions. I drive most M.R. suspension systems in soft mode on the street (even at speed) because they are usually too bumpy to benefit from the 'track' mode. Has anyone tried softer springs on the CGT? Comments?
Overall, the CGT despite being a decade old is clearly as good and as powerful as any modern super car, just more interactive. It's a manly car made for people who've learned the art of driving (not just stamping on the pedal). Plus you can turn TC off with a simple button press; no button contortion or secret handshakes required!
If you're shopping for a Carrera GT, I caution you may wake up with a horse head in your bed until I find mine first. Nothing personal.
08-20-2013, 11:44 AM
#73
Drifting
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Wonder what the P1 will do to the curreny McLaren offering at resale? Lets just hope they dont play the Ferrari game? Oh sorry mate, there is an 18 - 24 month waiting list. All along the bay area McLaren dealership wants me in for a test drive. And I still didnt make it into the McLaren tent last Friday based on Business and time constraints!
Last edited by Tacet-Conundrum; 08-20-2013 at 12:19 PM. Reason: periods are not questions marks in this 3 dimensional universe we live in.
08-20-2013, 12:05 PM
#74
I think Montoya just summarized my frustration with the McLaren (the inability to drift it) and the issue with all these supercars: You have to go so fast to find the edge of the envelope. Which easily leads to jail or a much worse outcome. (Time for a lightweight old-skool 911 with skinny tyres).
On another note, I drove a Carrera GT this weekend for the first time. Wow!!
It's certainly a proper (analog) sports car............As a result the CGT couldn't keep pace with the 12C as it was too much of a handful in the twisties with the bumps and lumps. Overall, the CGT despite being a decade old is clearly as good and as powerful as any modern super car, just more interactive. It's a manly car made for people who've learned the art of driving (not just stamping on the pedal). Plus you can turn TC off with a simple button press; no button contortion or secret handshakes required!
On another note, I drove a Carrera GT this weekend for the first time. Wow!!
It's certainly a proper (analog) sports car............As a result the CGT couldn't keep pace with the 12C as it was too much of a handful in the twisties with the bumps and lumps. Overall, the CGT despite being a decade old is clearly as good and as powerful as any modern super car, just more interactive. It's a manly car made for people who've learned the art of driving (not just stamping on the pedal). Plus you can turn TC off with a simple button press; no button contortion or secret handshakes required!
Compared to the 12C the CGT:
1. More expensive to service. 4 year service jobs/clutch job is more expensive. The annual service on my 12C coupe was $1440(which included a brake fluid flush).
2. More expensive to repair. Front end is low without any nose lift. Low speed front end damage can cost $$.
3. Lack of Stability control means you can't really push it beyond 6/10th - 7/10ths. Again - that percentage depends on your skill BUT I had extensive discussions with many CGT owners who track their RS's but weekend cruise the CGT because they are afraid of its quick rotation. The Michelin PSS's help address some of this but the lack of VSC is still somewhat of an issue. Sure you might say "A real man can handle a car without the electronic nannies" but I would hate to find out that I am "not a real man" after I hit the curb sideways on a new ot me CGT that cost $350-$400K.
4. Point #3 means you are much much less likely to track you CGT vs. a 12C.
The arguement of E-diff or Mechanical diff is typically made by 911 cup drivers. I personally feel most of us don't have enough experience with brake steer. I know I surely don't. Here is a stock, I repeat a STOCK 12C with standard brakes and Pirelli P Zero street tires going around the 'Ring. I think it does alright.
Last edited by Ritesh; 08-20-2013 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Spelling/Grammar