Observations from Zuffenhausen
07-21-2013, 03:26 PM
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Observations from Zuffenhausen
I just spent a week in Southern Germany after picking up a new Cayenne GTS, visiting the Porsche Museum and touring the manufacturing facility. I intended to crawl all over the new 991 cup also, but production will not commence until August and Weissach was off limits. Anyway, I recommend this experience should you order a new Porsche in the future.
A few random observations from my visit:
* Porsche's manufacturing facilities are nowhere near how one would lay them out with a clean sheet of paper. In a dense urban area, on multiple levels and with challenging access it is far from ideal. The takeaway for me is that the same philosophical approach to the development of the 911 is what has been applied to the manufacturing facilities. Through engineering ingenuity, sheer determination and commitment to perfecting what exists vs what may be theoretically ideal, Porsche has somehow made it work well.
* The engine manufacturing floor (which makes every engine for every Porsche, including the V-8s headed to Leipzig) is a marvel of productivity and quality control. It is also running about flat out and would be difficult to expand. It would also be a challenge to have a third, materially different engine besides the flat six and the current V-8.
* The robotics in general are limited as relates to actual assembly/manufacturing, but robots/robotics are used extensively in moving major components and in moving parts to workstations. It would be a stretch to say a 911 is hand built, but I think it is fair to say that it is hand assembled.
* The museum has been described extensively in other posts. It is very good and displays many marvelous cars, but I was a little disappointed that they didn't have a few more interactive areas, historic videos and the like.
* The new 991 Turbo looks good in the flesh. I think better than the 997 version. It has a more aggressive appearance overall and the rear end of the car is visually improved.
* The new 991 RSR is just the opposite. It looks a little bulbous and soft to me compared to the 997 RSR (a nasty beast), despite its wider dimensions. For some reason it doesn't have the same visceral appeal.
* European delivery is well organized and they do a great job of setting the car up with European GPS (a lifesaver) as well as walking you through some details of the car. I've has 3 Cayennes in a row for daily drivers and my delivery guy taught me a few new things.
* The 2014 Cup (which I am in line for) will have a Mezger engine. Period. I do not believe they will change it to the 9A1 for several years (if ever), despite various opinions to the contrary.
* It is tough to get clear running room on the autobahn. There were only a few occasions where I could really haul the mail, but I was able to run 120-125 mph consistently in light traffic for extended periods. Some of secondary roads, particularly in southern Bavaria as you approach the Alps, are phenomenal and not to be missed.
If you have a chance to visit the factory and spend some time in Southern Germany, you won't be disappointed.
A few random observations from my visit:
* Porsche's manufacturing facilities are nowhere near how one would lay them out with a clean sheet of paper. In a dense urban area, on multiple levels and with challenging access it is far from ideal. The takeaway for me is that the same philosophical approach to the development of the 911 is what has been applied to the manufacturing facilities. Through engineering ingenuity, sheer determination and commitment to perfecting what exists vs what may be theoretically ideal, Porsche has somehow made it work well.
* The engine manufacturing floor (which makes every engine for every Porsche, including the V-8s headed to Leipzig) is a marvel of productivity and quality control. It is also running about flat out and would be difficult to expand. It would also be a challenge to have a third, materially different engine besides the flat six and the current V-8.
* The robotics in general are limited as relates to actual assembly/manufacturing, but robots/robotics are used extensively in moving major components and in moving parts to workstations. It would be a stretch to say a 911 is hand built, but I think it is fair to say that it is hand assembled.
* The museum has been described extensively in other posts. It is very good and displays many marvelous cars, but I was a little disappointed that they didn't have a few more interactive areas, historic videos and the like.
* The new 991 Turbo looks good in the flesh. I think better than the 997 version. It has a more aggressive appearance overall and the rear end of the car is visually improved.
* The new 991 RSR is just the opposite. It looks a little bulbous and soft to me compared to the 997 RSR (a nasty beast), despite its wider dimensions. For some reason it doesn't have the same visceral appeal.
* European delivery is well organized and they do a great job of setting the car up with European GPS (a lifesaver) as well as walking you through some details of the car. I've has 3 Cayennes in a row for daily drivers and my delivery guy taught me a few new things.
* The 2014 Cup (which I am in line for) will have a Mezger engine. Period. I do not believe they will change it to the 9A1 for several years (if ever), despite various opinions to the contrary.
* It is tough to get clear running room on the autobahn. There were only a few occasions where I could really haul the mail, but I was able to run 120-125 mph consistently in light traffic for extended periods. Some of secondary roads, particularly in southern Bavaria as you approach the Alps, are phenomenal and not to be missed.
If you have a chance to visit the factory and spend some time in Southern Germany, you won't be disappointed.
07-21-2013, 07:31 PM
#2
Sounds like an awesome trip! Would you do it again? Was there in 2008. We had a factory tour schedule but did not go - son was too young. He was 14. Was really disappointed with the autobahn. Way too much truck traffic!
07-21-2013, 07:46 PM
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Thanks for the write up. I'm heading that way, for the first time, in Sept. Gotta be fun.
07-22-2013, 05:07 PM
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Yes, the pink pig was still there. There were about 4-5 917's on the floor. One or two were off to Goodwood, but it was still a pretty good collection. I've got some good pictures but I am too dumb to upload them.
And Brake Dust, I would definitely do it again. I dragged my wife and two daughters (youngest 13) through the factory, the museum and over 1,300 miles on the road. It took some retail bribery and nice hotels, but they had a great time. Next time I will do it solo or with a buddy, hit the Ring and get my way into Weissach.
And Brake Dust, I would definitely do it again. I dragged my wife and two daughters (youngest 13) through the factory, the museum and over 1,300 miles on the road. It took some retail bribery and nice hotels, but they had a great time. Next time I will do it solo or with a buddy, hit the Ring and get my way into Weissach.
07-22-2013, 05:59 PM
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That's in line with what I've heard as well. The 9A1 is apparently not a motorsport engine despite revving to 9K in the new GT3. What's interesting to me is that Porsche at least used the Mezger engine in GT and turbo cars before. But now there is a real separation of the men from the boys.
07-22-2013, 07:46 PM
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* Porsche's manufacturing facilities are nowhere near how one would lay them out with a clean sheet of paper. In a dense urban area, on multiple levels and with challenging access it is far from ideal. The takeaway for me is that the same philosophical approach to the development of the 911 is what has been applied to the manufacturing facilities. Through engineering ingenuity, sheer determination and commitment to perfecting what exists vs what may be theoretically ideal, Porsche has somehow made it work well.
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07-22-2013, 11:02 PM
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I was in Zuffenhausen and those comments are specific to that plant. The Cayenne was produced in Liepzig, as they all are, but I had it delivered to Zuffenhausen for pick up. I haven't toured Liepzig, but would bet it is ultra efficient as it was a clean sheet of paper facility design.
As to Ilko's 9A1 comments, I could start a whole new 10 page thread. The 9A1 revs higher, it's a newer design, it's lighter....I hope everyone enjoys it. I'll stick to the proven weapon
As to Ilko's 9A1 comments, I could start a whole new 10 page thread. The 9A1 revs higher, it's a newer design, it's lighter....I hope everyone enjoys it. I'll stick to the proven weapon
07-23-2013, 07:41 AM
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I just spent a week in Southern Germany after picking up a new Cayenne GTS, visiting the Porsche Museum and touring the manufacturing facility. I intended to crawl all over the new 991 cup also, but production will not commence until August and Weissach was off limits. Anyway, I recommend this experience should you order a new Porsche in the future.
A few random observations from my visit:
* Porsche's manufacturing facilities are nowhere near how one would lay them out with a clean sheet of paper. In a dense urban area, on multiple levels and with challenging access it is far from ideal. The takeaway for me is that the same philosophical approach to the development of the 911 is what has been applied to the manufacturing facilities. Through engineering ingenuity, sheer determination and commitment to perfecting what exists vs what may be theoretically ideal, Porsche has somehow made it work well.
* The engine manufacturing floor (which makes every engine for every Porsche, including the V-8s headed to Leipzig) is a marvel of productivity and quality control. It is also running about flat out and would be difficult to expand. It would also be a challenge to have a third, materially different engine besides the flat six and the current V-8.
* The robotics in general are limited as relates to actual assembly/manufacturing, but robots/robotics are used extensively in moving major components and in moving parts to workstations. It would be a stretch to say a 911 is hand built, but I think it is fair to say that it is hand assembled.
* The museum has been described extensively in other posts. It is very good and displays many marvelous cars, but I was a little disappointed that they didn't have a few more interactive areas, historic videos and the like.
* The new 991 Turbo looks good in the flesh. I think better than the 997 version. It has a more aggressive appearance overall and the rear end of the car is visually improved.
* The new 991 RSR is just the opposite. It looks a little bulbous and soft to me compared to the 997 RSR (a nasty beast), despite its wider dimensions. For some reason it doesn't have the same visceral appeal.
* European delivery is well organized and they do a great job of setting the car up with European GPS (a lifesaver) as well as walking you through some details of the car. I've has 3 Cayennes in a row for daily drivers and my delivery guy taught me a few new things.
* The 2014 Cup (which I am in line for) will have a Mezger engine. Period. I do not believe they will change it to the 9A1 for several years (if ever), despite various opinions to the contrary.
* It is tough to get clear running room on the autobahn. There were only a few occasions where I could really haul the mail, but I was able to run 120-125 mph consistently in light traffic for extended periods. Some of secondary roads, particularly in southern Bavaria as you approach the Alps, are phenomenal and not to be missed.
If you have a chance to visit the factory and spend some time in Southern Germany, you won't be disappointed.
A few random observations from my visit:
* Porsche's manufacturing facilities are nowhere near how one would lay them out with a clean sheet of paper. In a dense urban area, on multiple levels and with challenging access it is far from ideal. The takeaway for me is that the same philosophical approach to the development of the 911 is what has been applied to the manufacturing facilities. Through engineering ingenuity, sheer determination and commitment to perfecting what exists vs what may be theoretically ideal, Porsche has somehow made it work well.
* The engine manufacturing floor (which makes every engine for every Porsche, including the V-8s headed to Leipzig) is a marvel of productivity and quality control. It is also running about flat out and would be difficult to expand. It would also be a challenge to have a third, materially different engine besides the flat six and the current V-8.
* The robotics in general are limited as relates to actual assembly/manufacturing, but robots/robotics are used extensively in moving major components and in moving parts to workstations. It would be a stretch to say a 911 is hand built, but I think it is fair to say that it is hand assembled.
* The museum has been described extensively in other posts. It is very good and displays many marvelous cars, but I was a little disappointed that they didn't have a few more interactive areas, historic videos and the like.
* The new 991 Turbo looks good in the flesh. I think better than the 997 version. It has a more aggressive appearance overall and the rear end of the car is visually improved.
* The new 991 RSR is just the opposite. It looks a little bulbous and soft to me compared to the 997 RSR (a nasty beast), despite its wider dimensions. For some reason it doesn't have the same visceral appeal.
* European delivery is well organized and they do a great job of setting the car up with European GPS (a lifesaver) as well as walking you through some details of the car. I've has 3 Cayennes in a row for daily drivers and my delivery guy taught me a few new things.
* The 2014 Cup (which I am in line for) will have a Mezger engine. Period. I do not believe they will change it to the 9A1 for several years (if ever), despite various opinions to the contrary.
* It is tough to get clear running room on the autobahn. There were only a few occasions where I could really haul the mail, but I was able to run 120-125 mph consistently in light traffic for extended periods. Some of secondary roads, particularly in southern Bavaria as you approach the Alps, are phenomenal and not to be missed.
If you have a chance to visit the factory and spend some time in Southern Germany, you won't be disappointed.
Thanks for the review..fully agree...a few comments:
- Porsche factory: yes..but dont forget its in the middle of the city...not a green field factory..historical reasons etc.
-991 RSR..yes 997 GT3 RSR looks better..looks more brutal..
-2014 CUP : my guess too..but dont mention this in the 991 GT3 thred..youll get massacred..
- Autobahn: avoid anything close to Stuttgart,,its useless..too much traffic there. Im relatively often in the region..just let me know when your there again and I will give you some hints on where to go.
I will be there again in sept-october...
all the best,
07-23-2013, 07:45 AM
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That's in line with what I've heard as well. The 9A1 is apparently not a motorsport engine despite revving to 9K in the new GT3. What's interesting to me is that Porsche at least used the Mezger engine in GT and turbo cars before. But now there is a real separation of the men from the boys.
CUP cars have no problem at 10k (if overevved)..!
07-23-2013, 10:31 AM
#12
Trucker
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I was in Zuffenhausen and those comments are specific to that plant. The Cayenne was produced in Liepzig, as they all are, but I had it delivered to Zuffenhausen for pick up. I haven't toured Liepzig, but would bet it is ultra efficient as it was a clean sheet of paper facility design.
07-23-2013, 01:59 PM
#13
I just spent a week in Southern Germany after picking up a new Cayenne GTS, visiting the Porsche Museum and touring the manufacturing facility. I intended to crawl all over the new 991 cup also, but production will not commence until August and Weissach was off limits. Anyway, I recommend this experience should you order a new Porsche in the future.
A few random observations from my visit:
* Porsche's manufacturing facilities are nowhere near how one would lay them out with a clean sheet of paper. In a dense urban area, on multiple levels and with challenging access it is far from ideal. The takeaway for me is that the same philosophical approach to the development of the 911 is what has been applied to the manufacturing facilities. Through engineering ingenuity, sheer determination and commitment to perfecting what exists vs what may be theoretically ideal, Porsche has somehow made it work well.
* The engine manufacturing floor (which makes every engine for every Porsche, including the V-8s headed to Leipzig) is a marvel of productivity and quality control. It is also running about flat out and would be difficult to expand. It would also be a challenge to have a third, materially different engine besides the flat six and the current V-8.
* The robotics in general are limited as relates to actual assembly/manufacturing, but robots/robotics are used extensively in moving major components and in moving parts to workstations. It would be a stretch to say a 911 is hand built, but I think it is fair to say that it is hand assembled.
* The museum has been described extensively in other posts. It is very good and displays many marvelous cars, but I was a little disappointed that they didn't have a few more interactive areas, historic videos and the like.
* The new 991 Turbo looks good in the flesh. I think better than the 997 version. It has a more aggressive appearance overall and the rear end of the car is visually improved.
* The new 991 RSR is just the opposite. It looks a little bulbous and soft to me compared to the 997 RSR (a nasty beast), despite its wider dimensions. For some reason it doesn't have the same visceral appeal.
* European delivery is well organized and they do a great job of setting the car up with European GPS (a lifesaver) as well as walking you through some details of the car. I've has 3 Cayennes in a row for daily drivers and my delivery guy taught me a few new things.
* The 2014 Cup (which I am in line for) will have a Mezger engine. Period. I do not believe they will change it to the 9A1 for several years (if ever), despite various opinions to the contrary.
* It is tough to get clear running room on the autobahn. There were only a few occasions where I could really haul the mail, but I was able to run 120-125 mph consistently in light traffic for extended periods. Some of secondary roads, particularly in southern Bavaria as you approach the Alps, are phenomenal and not to be missed.
If you have a chance to visit the factory and spend some time in Southern Germany, you won't be disappointed.
A few random observations from my visit:
* Porsche's manufacturing facilities are nowhere near how one would lay them out with a clean sheet of paper. In a dense urban area, on multiple levels and with challenging access it is far from ideal. The takeaway for me is that the same philosophical approach to the development of the 911 is what has been applied to the manufacturing facilities. Through engineering ingenuity, sheer determination and commitment to perfecting what exists vs what may be theoretically ideal, Porsche has somehow made it work well.
* The engine manufacturing floor (which makes every engine for every Porsche, including the V-8s headed to Leipzig) is a marvel of productivity and quality control. It is also running about flat out and would be difficult to expand. It would also be a challenge to have a third, materially different engine besides the flat six and the current V-8.
* The robotics in general are limited as relates to actual assembly/manufacturing, but robots/robotics are used extensively in moving major components and in moving parts to workstations. It would be a stretch to say a 911 is hand built, but I think it is fair to say that it is hand assembled.
* The museum has been described extensively in other posts. It is very good and displays many marvelous cars, but I was a little disappointed that they didn't have a few more interactive areas, historic videos and the like.
* The new 991 Turbo looks good in the flesh. I think better than the 997 version. It has a more aggressive appearance overall and the rear end of the car is visually improved.
* The new 991 RSR is just the opposite. It looks a little bulbous and soft to me compared to the 997 RSR (a nasty beast), despite its wider dimensions. For some reason it doesn't have the same visceral appeal.
* European delivery is well organized and they do a great job of setting the car up with European GPS (a lifesaver) as well as walking you through some details of the car. I've has 3 Cayennes in a row for daily drivers and my delivery guy taught me a few new things.
* The 2014 Cup (which I am in line for) will have a Mezger engine. Period. I do not believe they will change it to the 9A1 for several years (if ever), despite various opinions to the contrary.
* It is tough to get clear running room on the autobahn. There were only a few occasions where I could really haul the mail, but I was able to run 120-125 mph consistently in light traffic for extended periods. Some of secondary roads, particularly in southern Bavaria as you approach the Alps, are phenomenal and not to be missed.
If you have a chance to visit the factory and spend some time in Southern Germany, you won't be disappointed.
Aren't the V-6 engines in the Cayenne (Porsche's best seller) made in the VW plant...since they are VW and not Porsche engines ? (and don't forget the VW body panels and Japanese transmissions...)
Bill
07-23-2013, 06:57 PM
#14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilko
That's in line with what I've heard as well. The 9A1 is apparently not a motorsport engine despite revving to 9K in the new GT3. What's interesting to me is that Porsche at least used the Mezger engine in GT and turbo cars before. But now there is a real separation of the men from the boys.
I have been seeing the same info. Maybe in Super Cup but not FIA/ACO endurance racing. Also speculate that there will be more 991 GT3s built because of the shared 9a1 engine design.
Originally Posted by ilko
That's in line with what I've heard as well. The 9A1 is apparently not a motorsport engine despite revving to 9K in the new GT3. What's interesting to me is that Porsche at least used the Mezger engine in GT and turbo cars before. But now there is a real separation of the men from the boys.
I have been seeing the same info. Maybe in Super Cup but not FIA/ACO endurance racing. Also speculate that there will be more 991 GT3s built because of the shared 9a1 engine design.