Andreas Preuninger interview - Interesting point of view from 2011
05-27-2013, 02:11 PM
#17
Remember that he is still an employee when you want these interviews. With the Metzger engine, there was no variant of the PDK that would attach to it. It would have been extremely expensive to make one for a limited run of cars. The G96/50+ transmissions will also not matte to the 9A1 engine. Hence they only had 2 options by choosing to go this time around to a street based engine versus a racing one: PDK or the PDK based manual. Since the new manual isn't substantially lighter than the PDK, it was a easy decision not to have it. This is especially true when less than 20% of the new Carreras/Carrera S models have manuals. I do find it interesting though that he mentions the owners survey, which I personally participated in, that resulted in most wanting manuals.
The other thing to note is the comments about the pre-production cars used for testing at the Ring. He specifically said they have to be "scraped" because if an individual were to get the car, there may be unique parts that can not be replaced. This supports my philosophy to never measure performance based on a pre-production car as you can never tell how different it is from a production one.
The other thing to note is the comments about the pre-production cars used for testing at the Ring. He specifically said they have to be "scraped" because if an individual were to get the car, there may be unique parts that can not be replaced. This supports my philosophy to never measure performance based on a pre-production car as you can never tell how different it is from a production one.
05-27-2013, 03:44 PM
#18
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oh nice to see this old video of mine getting airtime again. i'd actually forgotten what AP said...
yeah i'll have to agree with what people have pointed out-- he is an employee after all, and this was an event for the press (even if there were only about 5 of us for this GT2RS test drive) and he knew I had a camera in his face.
i've had limited opportunities to directly interact with these guys, but some of the engineers and motorsports guys will tell you different things off the record. or if they don't say it outright, they answer with a kind of *wink wink* *nudge nudge* answer that lets you know what they really think.
Walther Rohrl seems to be the guy who is most purist, and will be most vocal. back in '05, i asked him what he thought about Porsche tuners, and be basically said he didn't like guys like TechArt and Gemballa, but that "Manthey and Ruf are the only two tuners that know how to make a Porsche better than Porsche from the factory". i'm NOT saying this to suggest anything about any tuner, and my ONLY point in repeating it, is that this was a statement that surprised me, considering he was already on Porsche's payroll back then, and other senior guys from Porsche were at the breakfast table with us. So for him to even suggest that ANY tuner could improve on a Porsche would be a PR nightmare.
my sense is that over the years, even WR has started to tow the company line even more though...
a second example i can think of was right after the interview with AP I asked the engineer who you see with AP in the video, how they can say that 620hp is the absolute maximum power they can extract from the engine, when clearly tuners from the U.S. and Europe were already extracting more than that from TT's and GT2's. he basically said of course they can get much more power from the motors, but they have to build the cars for enthusiasts such as ourselves, as well as for ignorant owners who don't follow maintenance schedules, or put the wrong type of gas in the car. not exactly contradicting AP, but certainly confirming what we all already know-- that the brochures don't tell the complete story.
Finally and most recently, during a Porsche Roadshow event last year (which also featured the just launched 991 Carrera,) on stage in front of the event participants, the Porsche Motorsport guest drivers all basically said the new car was the best thing since sliced bread... but when we pulled them aside and asked which car they preferred, the new car or the 997 GT3, they all w/o hesitation said they'd take the GT3 over the new Carrera any day.
yeah i'll have to agree with what people have pointed out-- he is an employee after all, and this was an event for the press (even if there were only about 5 of us for this GT2RS test drive) and he knew I had a camera in his face.
i've had limited opportunities to directly interact with these guys, but some of the engineers and motorsports guys will tell you different things off the record. or if they don't say it outright, they answer with a kind of *wink wink* *nudge nudge* answer that lets you know what they really think.
Walther Rohrl seems to be the guy who is most purist, and will be most vocal. back in '05, i asked him what he thought about Porsche tuners, and be basically said he didn't like guys like TechArt and Gemballa, but that "Manthey and Ruf are the only two tuners that know how to make a Porsche better than Porsche from the factory". i'm NOT saying this to suggest anything about any tuner, and my ONLY point in repeating it, is that this was a statement that surprised me, considering he was already on Porsche's payroll back then, and other senior guys from Porsche were at the breakfast table with us. So for him to even suggest that ANY tuner could improve on a Porsche would be a PR nightmare.
my sense is that over the years, even WR has started to tow the company line even more though...
a second example i can think of was right after the interview with AP I asked the engineer who you see with AP in the video, how they can say that 620hp is the absolute maximum power they can extract from the engine, when clearly tuners from the U.S. and Europe were already extracting more than that from TT's and GT2's. he basically said of course they can get much more power from the motors, but they have to build the cars for enthusiasts such as ourselves, as well as for ignorant owners who don't follow maintenance schedules, or put the wrong type of gas in the car. not exactly contradicting AP, but certainly confirming what we all already know-- that the brochures don't tell the complete story.
Finally and most recently, during a Porsche Roadshow event last year (which also featured the just launched 991 Carrera,) on stage in front of the event participants, the Porsche Motorsport guest drivers all basically said the new car was the best thing since sliced bread... but when we pulled them aside and asked which car they preferred, the new car or the 997 GT3, they all w/o hesitation said they'd take the GT3 over the new Carrera any day.
05-27-2013, 05:02 PM
#19
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oh nice to see this old video of mine getting airtime again. i'd actually forgotten what AP said...
yeah i'll have to agree with what people have pointed out-- he is an employee after all, and this was an event for the press (even if there were only about 5 of us for this GT2RS test drive) and he knew I had a camera in his face.
i've had limited opportunities to directly interact with these guys, but some of the engineers and motorsports guys will tell you different things off the record. or if they don't say it outright, they answer with a kind of *wink wink* *nudge nudge* answer that lets you know what they really think.
Walther Rohrl seems to be the guy who is most purist, and will be most vocal. back in '05, i asked him what he thought about Porsche tuners, and be basically said he didn't like guys like TechArt and Gemballa, but that "Manthey and Ruf are the only two tuners that know how to make a Porsche better than Porsche from the factory". i'm NOT saying this to suggest anything about any tuner, and my ONLY point in repeating it, is that this was a statement that surprised me, considering he was already on Porsche's payroll back then, and other senior guys from Porsche were at the breakfast table with us. So for him to even suggest that ANY tuner could improve on a Porsche would be a PR nightmare.
my sense is that over the years, even WR has started to tow the company line even more though...
a second example i can think of was right after the interview with AP I asked the engineer who you see with AP in the video, how they can say that 620hp is the absolute maximum power they can extract from the engine, when clearly tuners from the U.S. and Europe were already extracting more than that from TT's and GT2's. he basically said of course they can get much more power from the motors, but they have to build the cars for enthusiasts such as ourselves, as well as for ignorant owners who don't follow maintenance schedules, or put the wrong type of gas in the car. not exactly contradicting AP, but certainly confirming what we all already know-- that the brochures don't tell the complete story.
Finally and most recently, during a Porsche Roadshow event last year (which also featured the just launched 991 Carrera,) on stage in front of the event participants, the Porsche Motorsport guest drivers all basically said the new car was the best thing since sliced bread... but when we pulled them aside and asked which car they preferred, the new car or the 997 GT3, they all w/o hesitation said they'd take the GT3 over the new Carrera any day.
yeah i'll have to agree with what people have pointed out-- he is an employee after all, and this was an event for the press (even if there were only about 5 of us for this GT2RS test drive) and he knew I had a camera in his face.
i've had limited opportunities to directly interact with these guys, but some of the engineers and motorsports guys will tell you different things off the record. or if they don't say it outright, they answer with a kind of *wink wink* *nudge nudge* answer that lets you know what they really think.
Walther Rohrl seems to be the guy who is most purist, and will be most vocal. back in '05, i asked him what he thought about Porsche tuners, and be basically said he didn't like guys like TechArt and Gemballa, but that "Manthey and Ruf are the only two tuners that know how to make a Porsche better than Porsche from the factory". i'm NOT saying this to suggest anything about any tuner, and my ONLY point in repeating it, is that this was a statement that surprised me, considering he was already on Porsche's payroll back then, and other senior guys from Porsche were at the breakfast table with us. So for him to even suggest that ANY tuner could improve on a Porsche would be a PR nightmare.
my sense is that over the years, even WR has started to tow the company line even more though...
a second example i can think of was right after the interview with AP I asked the engineer who you see with AP in the video, how they can say that 620hp is the absolute maximum power they can extract from the engine, when clearly tuners from the U.S. and Europe were already extracting more than that from TT's and GT2's. he basically said of course they can get much more power from the motors, but they have to build the cars for enthusiasts such as ourselves, as well as for ignorant owners who don't follow maintenance schedules, or put the wrong type of gas in the car. not exactly contradicting AP, but certainly confirming what we all already know-- that the brochures don't tell the complete story.
Finally and most recently, during a Porsche Roadshow event last year (which also featured the just launched 991 Carrera,) on stage in front of the event participants, the Porsche Motorsport guest drivers all basically said the new car was the best thing since sliced bread... but when we pulled them aside and asked which car they preferred, the new car or the 997 GT3, they all w/o hesitation said they'd take the GT3 over the new Carrera any day.
Says all - doesnt it..
05-27-2013, 05:27 PM
#20
Banned
Thread Starter
It's so funny the kind of kool aiders in the 991 forum about this matter ... they try to find a justification to AP's behavior like, he SAW THE LIGHT !!!
It's almost said that all they see is the PDK PDK PDK PDK PDK PDK ... and not all the other aspects of the interview that shows the change in directions.
It's almost said that all they see is the PDK PDK PDK PDK PDK PDK ... and not all the other aspects of the interview that shows the change in directions.
05-27-2013, 05:37 PM
#21
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Guys, let's be respectful of the "other side" even if we disagree on principle.
At this point, I suggest that we better wait for the actual car, drive it, use/abuse it and then report back here in due course.
At this point, I suggest that we better wait for the actual car, drive it, use/abuse it and then report back here in due course.
05-27-2013, 05:41 PM
#22
Banned
Thread Starter
John I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings, as this wasn't my intention, nor bash the PDK itself, but yes Porsche attitude as a whole, by their change of direction.
05-27-2013, 05:56 PM
#23
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No worries Eddie. I don't think you did.
Looking forward , I posted something that gives the benefit of the doubt to the new car, to the developers and its fans here in Rennlist.
After-all it's just a bloody car that NONE of us has driven yet.
Nothing more and nothing less.
The time will come to measure it in real life.
This is Rennlist and we all know that there will be room for anyone to post about their experience. Pleasant or not so..
Best,
Looking forward , I posted something that gives the benefit of the doubt to the new car, to the developers and its fans here in Rennlist.
After-all it's just a bloody car that NONE of us has driven yet.
Nothing more and nothing less.
The time will come to measure it in real life.
This is Rennlist and we all know that there will be room for anyone to post about their experience. Pleasant or not so..
Best,
05-27-2013, 09:27 PM
#25
Race Director
I agree with you...just giving you a hard time..sort of. Porsche is on a different road than the Porsche I grew up with or even knowing since I've been able to afford a Porsche. Not sure I like Porsche's direction on things...like you Porsche should provide a choice. The 991 GT3 just isn't racey and raw like some of the past GT based cars.
05-27-2013, 10:40 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
I agree with you...just giving you a hard time..sort of. Porsche is on a different road than the Porsche I grew up with or even knowing since I've been able to afford a Porsche. Not sure I like Porsche's direction on things...like you Porsche should provide a choice. The 991 GT3 just isn't racey and raw like some of the past GT based cars.
If no one can break it is hope for the RS
I stopped paying attention, how did that go?
05-28-2013, 01:47 AM
#28
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have not driven the 991 GT3 obviously, but i have almost zero doubt that when i do, it will blow me away. i will have more than a few "OMG, i must have one of these" moments in my head, and will try to do the man maths to figure out how to trade up from my 997.1 to the new car.
but IMHO, its not that one is "better" than the other... but that each one does some things better than the other can. we can debate about what the "essence" of a GT3 is... you could argue that a GT3 should be about involvement and the driving experience... BUT isn't it as valid an argument that a GT3 represents the pinnacle of Porsche motorsport technology for the road at the time? and to be as fast as possible on a track. given that, the 991 GT3 IS as much a GT3 as a 996.1 is.
and isn't the proper man maths problem "how do i justify having a manual 996/997 GT3 in my garage AND a 991 PDK GT3 at the same time?"
final point i'd like to make: while it is true that there's a bit of corporate hypocrisy in AP's about face (and he is an employee after all, so what would you have him do?)... someone on the 991 board said that as an engineer, you can't stick to the old paradigms. Porsche held out on putting flappy paddles in their cars for years despite the likes of Ferrari and BMW touting the advantages of these. and Porsche finally released PDK when they were satisfied that the technology was ready. i don't think it is fair to AP and his team to paint the situation as being so black & white. we were not present during the internal engineering (and marketing) debates leading up to the 991 GT3's final spec. i'm sure they were long, and heated!
but IMHO, its not that one is "better" than the other... but that each one does some things better than the other can. we can debate about what the "essence" of a GT3 is... you could argue that a GT3 should be about involvement and the driving experience... BUT isn't it as valid an argument that a GT3 represents the pinnacle of Porsche motorsport technology for the road at the time? and to be as fast as possible on a track. given that, the 991 GT3 IS as much a GT3 as a 996.1 is.
and isn't the proper man maths problem "how do i justify having a manual 996/997 GT3 in my garage AND a 991 PDK GT3 at the same time?"
final point i'd like to make: while it is true that there's a bit of corporate hypocrisy in AP's about face (and he is an employee after all, so what would you have him do?)... someone on the 991 board said that as an engineer, you can't stick to the old paradigms. Porsche held out on putting flappy paddles in their cars for years despite the likes of Ferrari and BMW touting the advantages of these. and Porsche finally released PDK when they were satisfied that the technology was ready. i don't think it is fair to AP and his team to paint the situation as being so black & white. we were not present during the internal engineering (and marketing) debates leading up to the 991 GT3's final spec. i'm sure they were long, and heated!
05-28-2013, 07:56 AM
#30
BUT isn't it as valid an argument that a GT3 represents the pinnacle of Porsche motorsport technology for the road at the time?