Ferrari 430 v Porsche GT3
05-25-2013, 03:05 PM
#1
Ferrari 430 v Porsche GT3
Posted the same on f-chat:
Looking for some objective opinions on buying one versus the other. I'm nearing my goal of taking a big step up the ladder in automobile ownership, and its boiling down to a 2005-2006 Ferrari F430 F1 or a 997 Porsche GT3, hopefully a 2010+. Had been considering a 997 Turbo S until I drove one last week. Realized that having a true drivers car is more important than 2.7 0-60 bragging rights. Current/prior cars include E46 M3 and a bunch of American muscle.
This will be a second car, but I do plan to put 5,000+ miles annually. Also plan to run laps at least monthly, 25-30 minutes per session. There will be some time spent sitting in traffic on occasion in sweltering Austin heat.
My honest read after some on-line research is that reliability shouldn't be markedly different between the 2... as long as I get I nice car in the first place.
The visceral experience is very important to me. Both cars are quick, handle very well and (most importantly), sound dynamite.
Porsche will likely cost $10k - $20k cheaper on the front end, but price won't be the ultimate criterion. That being said, I plan to avoid ceramic brakes on either... don't want a $10k penalty for a sloppy tire change.
Thanks in advance for objective, well-informed advice.
Looking for some objective opinions on buying one versus the other. I'm nearing my goal of taking a big step up the ladder in automobile ownership, and its boiling down to a 2005-2006 Ferrari F430 F1 or a 997 Porsche GT3, hopefully a 2010+. Had been considering a 997 Turbo S until I drove one last week. Realized that having a true drivers car is more important than 2.7 0-60 bragging rights. Current/prior cars include E46 M3 and a bunch of American muscle.
This will be a second car, but I do plan to put 5,000+ miles annually. Also plan to run laps at least monthly, 25-30 minutes per session. There will be some time spent sitting in traffic on occasion in sweltering Austin heat.
My honest read after some on-line research is that reliability shouldn't be markedly different between the 2... as long as I get I nice car in the first place.
The visceral experience is very important to me. Both cars are quick, handle very well and (most importantly), sound dynamite.
Porsche will likely cost $10k - $20k cheaper on the front end, but price won't be the ultimate criterion. That being said, I plan to avoid ceramic brakes on either... don't want a $10k penalty for a sloppy tire change.
Thanks in advance for objective, well-informed advice.
05-25-2013, 03:16 PM
#3
Track ???
Don't even waste your money on the FIAT, unless you have DEEP pockets and a lot of patience to wait for parts when it brakes. As a weekend car I think they are really nice.
Don't even waste your money on the FIAT, unless you have DEEP pockets and a lot of patience to wait for parts when it brakes. As a weekend car I think they are really nice.
05-25-2013, 04:20 PM
#4
Race Director
will be interesting to see which way this decision goes.
My very brief 430 driving experience made me feel like there was a big knife edge to the car... I would be scared to track it... but at 6/10 on a mountain road it was fantastic. I felt like the f1 transmission was not well resolved though.. I'd buy the 911 just for the manual and the most involving handling.
My very brief 430 driving experience made me feel like there was a big knife edge to the car... I would be scared to track it... but at 6/10 on a mountain road it was fantastic. I felt like the f1 transmission was not well resolved though.. I'd buy the 911 just for the manual and the most involving handling.
05-25-2013, 06:32 PM
#6
will be interesting to see which way this decision goes.
My very brief 430 driving experience made me feel like there was a big knife edge to the car... I would be scared to track it... but at 6/10 on a mountain road it was fantastic. I felt like the f1 transmission was not well resolved though.. I'd buy the 911 just for the manual and the most involving handling.
My very brief 430 driving experience made me feel like there was a big knife edge to the car... I would be scared to track it... but at 6/10 on a mountain road it was fantastic. I felt like the f1 transmission was not well resolved though.. I'd buy the 911 just for the manual and the most involving handling.
05-25-2013, 06:43 PM
#7
just check how many F430 are actually driven on a track and how many GT3s, you will get to a conclusion really quick.... but again ... just my opinion.
Any car can be driven at 2/10th and most likely they will survive.
Just an example. I had a Gallardo, lasted 2 laps at Sebring at summer time and 31 days in my garage. I considered the 430 until I found out I couldn't fit in the couch with my helmet on.
GTR, Fast numb and heavy, 2-3 laps overheating at the same track.
Maybe our definition of track use and reliability is a little different than mine. Not to say that for the price of a 9 years old FIAT you probably can find a 2010 GT3 CPO.
Looks like you have your opinion already, get the one that suits you better. Good luck with your search.
Any car can be driven at 2/10th and most likely they will survive.
Just an example. I had a Gallardo, lasted 2 laps at Sebring at summer time and 31 days in my garage. I considered the 430 until I found out I couldn't fit in the couch with my helmet on.
GTR, Fast numb and heavy, 2-3 laps overheating at the same track.
Maybe our definition of track use and reliability is a little different than mine. Not to say that for the price of a 9 years old FIAT you probably can find a 2010 GT3 CPO.
Looks like you have your opinion already, get the one that suits you better. Good luck with your search.
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05-25-2013, 07:08 PM
#8
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Rennlist Member
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Most F430 out there are running on a wrong alignment, crappy tires, so they don't offer a good indication of what the car can really do.
Go for the newest possible (2008 or 2009 ) F430 with manual transmission. Carbon Ceramic brakes (380mm front and 350mm rear) became standard, and this car has the latest sensors and electronic controls for the e-diff and engine.
F430 is shocking reliable.
Buy a 2nd set of wheels. If you have a trailer go for Hoosier tires, or slicks from the F-Challenge. If you don't have a trailer, go for Pirelli Trofeo, MPSC, etc.
Replace the sofa seats in the F430 with Sparco Evo/Evo2/Evo3 (no idea on your size), or Recaro Pole Position. These two brands are available in Firberglass or Carbon Fiber, with multiple color and finishes. This will grant gigantic interior space.
The F430 is gigantice inside when equipped with the factory carbon seats, but they stopped offering the option in 2006, and these factory seats are expensive in the used market (near $10k) or new (close to $25k).
The only reason more VW than Fiat show up at track days is that the majority of Fiat drivers can't drive, or they are more interested in racing on a parking lot at Cars and Coffee.
Fun factor, the F430 blows any flavor of GT3.
If you can swing the 430 Scuderia, fun factor goes to MAX, ask people that have driven both the Scuderia and all the flavors of GT3s.
Go for the newest possible (2008 or 2009 ) F430 with manual transmission. Carbon Ceramic brakes (380mm front and 350mm rear) became standard, and this car has the latest sensors and electronic controls for the e-diff and engine.
F430 is shocking reliable.
Buy a 2nd set of wheels. If you have a trailer go for Hoosier tires, or slicks from the F-Challenge. If you don't have a trailer, go for Pirelli Trofeo, MPSC, etc.
Replace the sofa seats in the F430 with Sparco Evo/Evo2/Evo3 (no idea on your size), or Recaro Pole Position. These two brands are available in Firberglass or Carbon Fiber, with multiple color and finishes. This will grant gigantic interior space.
The F430 is gigantice inside when equipped with the factory carbon seats, but they stopped offering the option in 2006, and these factory seats are expensive in the used market (near $10k) or new (close to $25k).
The only reason more VW than Fiat show up at track days is that the majority of Fiat drivers can't drive, or they are more interested in racing on a parking lot at Cars and Coffee.
Fun factor, the F430 blows any flavor of GT3.
If you can swing the 430 Scuderia, fun factor goes to MAX, ask people that have driven both the Scuderia and all the flavors of GT3s.
05-25-2013, 07:13 PM
#9
just check how many F430 are actually driven on a track and how many GT3s, you will get to a conclusion really quick.... but again ... just my opinion.
Any car can be driven at 2/10th and most likely they will survive.
Just an example. I had a Gallardo, lasted 2 laps at Sebring at summer time and 31 days in my garage. I considered the 430 until I found out I couldn't fit in the couch with my helmet on.
GTR, Fast numb and heavy, 2-3 laps overheating at the same track.
Maybe our definition of track use and reliability is a little different than mine. Not to say that for the price of a 9 years old FIAT you probably can find a 2010 GT3 CPO.
Looks like you have your opinion already, get the one that suits you better. Good luck with your search.
Any car can be driven at 2/10th and most likely they will survive.
Just an example. I had a Gallardo, lasted 2 laps at Sebring at summer time and 31 days in my garage. I considered the 430 until I found out I couldn't fit in the couch with my helmet on.
GTR, Fast numb and heavy, 2-3 laps overheating at the same track.
Maybe our definition of track use and reliability is a little different than mine. Not to say that for the price of a 9 years old FIAT you probably can find a 2010 GT3 CPO.
Looks like you have your opinion already, get the one that suits you better. Good luck with your search.
05-25-2013, 07:15 PM
#10
Most F430 out there are running on a wrong alignment, crappy tires, so they don't offer a good indication of what the car can really do.
Go for the newest possible (2008 or 2009 ) F430 with manual transmission. Carbon Ceramic brakes (380mm front and 350mm rear) became standard, and this car has the latest sensors and electronic controls for the e-diff and engine.
F430 is shocking reliable.
Buy a 2nd set of wheels. If you have a trailer go for Hoosier tires, or slicks from the F-Challenge. If you don't have a trailer, go for Pirelli Trofeo, MPSC, etc.
Replace the sofa seats in the F430 with Sparco Evo/Evo2/Evo3 (no idea on your size), or Recaro Pole Position. These two brands are available in Firberglass or Carbon Fiber, with multiple color and finishes. This will grant gigantic interior space.
The F430 is gigantice inside when equipped with the factory carbon seats, but they stopped offering the option in 2006, and these factory seats are expensive in the used market (near $10k) or new (close to $25k).
The only reason more VW than Fiat show up at track days is that the majority of Fiat drivers can't drive, or they are more interested in racing on a parking lot at Cars and Coffee.
Fun factor, the F430 blows any flavor of GT3.
If you can swing the 430 Scuderia, fun factor goes to MAX, ask people that have driven both the Scuderia and all the flavors of GT3s.
Go for the newest possible (2008 or 2009 ) F430 with manual transmission. Carbon Ceramic brakes (380mm front and 350mm rear) became standard, and this car has the latest sensors and electronic controls for the e-diff and engine.
F430 is shocking reliable.
Buy a 2nd set of wheels. If you have a trailer go for Hoosier tires, or slicks from the F-Challenge. If you don't have a trailer, go for Pirelli Trofeo, MPSC, etc.
Replace the sofa seats in the F430 with Sparco Evo/Evo2/Evo3 (no idea on your size), or Recaro Pole Position. These two brands are available in Firberglass or Carbon Fiber, with multiple color and finishes. This will grant gigantic interior space.
The F430 is gigantice inside when equipped with the factory carbon seats, but they stopped offering the option in 2006, and these factory seats are expensive in the used market (near $10k) or new (close to $25k).
The only reason more VW than Fiat show up at track days is that the majority of Fiat drivers can't drive, or they are more interested in racing on a parking lot at Cars and Coffee.
Fun factor, the F430 blows any flavor of GT3.
If you can swing the 430 Scuderia, fun factor goes to MAX, ask people that have driven both the Scuderia and all the flavors of GT3s.
I'd love a Scud but that's a little out of reach...
05-25-2013, 07:20 PM
#11
Also really roomy once they have the Scud seats.
Be careful with the maintenance. Nothing cheap about Ferrari, and a lot of times parts are not available.
05-25-2013, 08:44 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
This is solely an emotional decision. My answer is always the same no matter what the candidates are.
Drive both. Buy the one that stirs your soul the most.
Drive both. Buy the one that stirs your soul the most.
05-25-2013, 09:24 PM
#13
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Certainly both models are pretty flashy...too much so I find. But relative to my .2 GT3 the Fiat seems downright cheesy. And that godawful ride height.....I used to think the 430 was so sick, now I wouldn't want to be seen driving it around (my) town. I would take a Scud and drive it to and from the track if you gave me one, perhaps.
05-25-2013, 10:00 PM
#14
Trucker
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
On the Ferrari note, something to think about...I am low key and do not want too much attention and the Ferrari definitely gets more gawking than anything I own(ed). Be ready for that...I had a 15min drive in a red 458 and that was enough for me...this is a big no for me even though I love the sound of that motor!
05-25-2013, 11:34 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Wouldn't bother with a straight 430, regardless of vintage. That's from the perspective of a track rat.
Having spent hours behind the wheels of scuds and 430GT3s I can attest that the 430 platform is one hell of a track machine when properly sorted. Is it better than the equivalent RS or Cup/CupR? No. (Otherwise I'd be posting under Rad's name lol!). Just different. The mid engine platform caters to better corner entry. And the paddle shifting is absolutely spot-on. The scream at 9krpm is orgasmic. All very different, in a very respectable way.
Now, it'd take you a LOT of effort and dough to get a straight 430 to perform remotely close to these levels. I track in tropical climate and have not seen any straight 430s live up to more than 5 laps of flat out driving (which I define as within 2 secs of pro times in same car). Those who try and (inevitably fail) will come back limping with all sorts of ills and it's always fun watching the Ferrari dealer crew rush to surround said 430 with portable fans to prevent self-combustion. Meanwhile our beetles quietly sit there, ready to go whenever the drivers are.
Drive the 430 to work; park it in front of your local sheeshee restaurant on Friday nights. Beat the last split second out of the RS at the track. Do not confuse the two.
Having spent hours behind the wheels of scuds and 430GT3s I can attest that the 430 platform is one hell of a track machine when properly sorted. Is it better than the equivalent RS or Cup/CupR? No. (Otherwise I'd be posting under Rad's name lol!). Just different. The mid engine platform caters to better corner entry. And the paddle shifting is absolutely spot-on. The scream at 9krpm is orgasmic. All very different, in a very respectable way.
Now, it'd take you a LOT of effort and dough to get a straight 430 to perform remotely close to these levels. I track in tropical climate and have not seen any straight 430s live up to more than 5 laps of flat out driving (which I define as within 2 secs of pro times in same car). Those who try and (inevitably fail) will come back limping with all sorts of ills and it's always fun watching the Ferrari dealer crew rush to surround said 430 with portable fans to prevent self-combustion. Meanwhile our beetles quietly sit there, ready to go whenever the drivers are.
Drive the 430 to work; park it in front of your local sheeshee restaurant on Friday nights. Beat the last split second out of the RS at the track. Do not confuse the two.